Comments

1. Jae Ran wrote:

   My 3rd grade son (8 yrs) came home a week ago talking about the n-word and other “bad” names that people call each other. I used that opportunity to talk about all the different racial slurs that people used, and I even told him what most of them were. Including the ones that people have said to me, and might/will likely use against him and his sister if he hasn’t heard them already. His sister who is in 7th grade has an advantage I don’t – she went to his school and she knows what it’s like on the playgrounds and in the lunchroom. She has another “kid’s view” but with more knowledge. And she’s very educated on talking about race and racism.

   I don’t think it’s too early at 4th grade to be talking about these things. By the time my kids were in 1st grade, they were reporting hearing names and slurs against all kinds of people including those against gays and lesbians – not just people of ethnic and racial diversity. They didn’t know what they (other kids) were saying by these names. To them, it was no different than calling someone “stupid” or something like that.

   I believe that if we don’t begin teaching our kids about the powerful meanings behind language aimed towards discussing race and racism (and that also goes for sexism and heterosexism) in our own homes and at age appropriate ways, that they’ll just pick up all the information from their peers and often it’s in ways I don’t care for. I liken it to sex education.

   My own view is this is real, my kids will be victims of racism, I want them to know how to deal with it as they get older. So I guess I don’t think it is too early, but I think it would have been expected that your son’s teacher would have informed parents about what she would be teaching so you’d have been prepared.

   Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 9:37 am ¶

2. Jae Ran wrote:

   I should have clarified that a discussion of the “n-” word came from his teacher, in discussing racism in their classroom for MLK day. Interestingly, his teacher had told the classroom that “cracker” was also a racist slur. I thought it interesting that the only dyads were black and white. In talking about the racial slurs they as Asians might encounter, my son had no idea what those were. My daughter and I had to inform him of those.

   Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 9:40 am ¶

3. Lyonside wrote:

   It really depends for me on the level of the students and the ability of the teacher to handle the subject matter.

   By 9-10 YO, some curriculums have students looking at world events, current politics, etc. In which case, the ugliness of past racism is probably a good subject lesson (and how it manifests today).

   I don’t think the content itself is too much, but the level of explicitness could be. For example, I don’t think a 9 YO needs to see the infamous lynching postcards and photographs – it’s probably too much for a sensitive kid to handle, and it could be a desensitizing thing or easy target for the kids who haven’t developed enough empathy yet. Just knowing that people were attacked and killed for the color of their skin, ethnic origin, talking back, standing up, etc. could be enough to get the point across.

   That said, I think I saw Roots before that age, and it was around 4th-5th grade that the Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry YA fiction came out (similar topics).

   My question to Linda is this: if you’d know, how would you have prepared your son for class or handled his questions differently? Was he disturbed/distraught over the imagery, or just had questions? Do you think the teacher handled things OK?

   Jae Ran: I totally hear you on the white/black thing. Focussing only on black/white relations at any level sends the wrong message. It tends to trivialize the struggles of other people, and doesn’t emphasize the fact that EVERYONE should be outraged by prejudice.

   Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 10:26 am ¶

4. kim wrote:

   Good questions from Lyonside.

   It is important for a teacher to realize ” it could be a desensitizing thing or easy target for the kids who haven’t developed enough empathy yet.” And for those reasons, I might want to have a follow-up with the teacher, to express my concerns about any fallout, and her/his preparedness for the children’s responses.

   I always think a child will ask questions that they are already musing on, and can handle a reasoned answer, with the respondent guaging where the child is in terms of cognitive and emotional development, and the “sessions”, between parent and child, can be engaging and thought-provoking for both.

   I would say, ready yourself (and enjoy listening to the gears turn in your head, and that sense of disconnectedness you sometimes have when you can hear your voice aching for form, trying to give flesh to your thoughts, molding them carefully, deliberately).

   Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 10:49 am ¶

5. dawn wrote:

   My son is technically in fourth grade (we homeschool) and I don’t think he’s too young although we’ve introduced topics very very carefully. We’re also a Jewish family and we’ve been tackling how to talk about the holocaust with him since, well, since forever. He’s still not ready for the details about the concentration camps and I don’t think he’s ready for details about slavery (like some of the chapter books like The Slave Dancer and Night John). I’ve been thinking about this anyway (and was going to talk about it in my next anti-racist post) — about how to talk about race and racism without always rooting it in history (as in, “It used to be…”) or overt violence.

   Race and racism are often “special topics” — segregated from the rest of life. I think kids are MORE ready to discuss more subtle forms of racism. I mean, I think most kids aren’t going to get why the “n” word is worse than, say, calling a friend stupid unless they understand more subtle forms of racism.

   So I guess I’d wonder what else this teacher (and the teachers who came before) are doing to build a foundation for this discussion.

   Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 11:26 am ¶

6. SF Mom wrote:

   I would have wanted a heads-up too, but actually I don’t think it’s too early. We have been discussing, reading children’s books, and watching documentaries about these topics with our daughter since she turned 5 years old, because that’s when she started asking questions. We do screen for scary images. I don’t know how to explain the importance of the struggle for civil rights without explaining what was being done to people. Does that make sense?

   Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 1:32 pm ¶

7. DS-L wrote:

   I may be the only one that thinks 4th grade is late to talk about racism. We talk about it all the time — we don’t describe lynching but we talk about people who harm others or treat others badly because of their race. We read the I have a Dream speech every year, we talk about the Japanese internment, bus boycotts, assumptions and stereotypes made on the basis of race, slavery in the U.S. and present day slavery in many parts of the world.

   Why is 4th grade late? — because my second grader had to deal with racial slurs, so these other kids, by age 7 or so have already picked up racist jokes, slurs and commentary, why shouldn’t they learn about racism in our schools? In fact, our church now is doing an anti-racist workshop for 6 months and my kindergartener is going with my 4th grader. (oops, i just read Jae Ran’s post and realize I agree with her)

   So, while everything has to be age-appropriate, racism is a very deep real issue and it does our kids a disservice to act like they can learn about it later. And yes, my kids also know the birds and the bees, and we talk about drug use and not smoking, and not drinking in high school. I’m not waiting for them to learn from other kids / families.
   DS-L

   Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 1:37 pm ¶

8. Ana wrote:

   DS-L, I’m with you. My son, who is black, came home from first grade last year asking us about the N-word. We had sure hoped he wouldn’t hear it so early, but someone had applied it to him, ALREADY. It turns out that it was a friend who had learned it from his teenage brother. I don’t think it was used in a hateful way but it’s still a hateful word. Fourth grade IS too late to learn about racism, especially if a child may find him or herself as a victim of it. Parents need to teach the painful truth that some people hate and hurt because of race, but that to do so is WRONG. Children need to know that people who perpetrate racism do not have the power of right on their side!

   Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 1:42 pm ¶

9. atlasien wrote:

   I would agree that around the age of 5 or 6 is a very good time to start talking about racism and stereotypes in an age-appropriate way. That’s the age when social identity really kickstarts because of school.

   I’m pessimistic as to whether it’s possible to really protect children against racist slurs. I think teaching them about racism is always good, and can help them make sense of why other kids use slurs. But at the younger ages, all the kids want is for the abuse to just stop. Especially at a younger age, asking them to process racism as a system together with emotional baggage of being the target of a a hostile slur… it’s just too much to ask.

   The most effective thing their parents can do is remove them from the environment where they’re facing the abuse, which of course isn’t always possible.

   I don’t mean to be so pessimistic as to say parents should just give up trying, in fact their preparation efforts must do a lot of good. But they’re like makeshift bandages on a wound that shouldn’t be made in the first place. I just think the responsibility should be on all parents to teach children not to use those slurs in the first place. Little children just can’t handle it on their own. It’s too much of a burden.

   Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 2:55 pm ¶

10. eliaday wrote:

    I don’t think it’s ever too early to talk to kids about race and racism. This is mainly a product of my experience that other people never seem to believe that it is too early to make racist (and sexist and heterosexist) remarks to and about babies and young kids.

    My favorite example: Did you ever see a little boy and a little girl sitting next to each other and hear someone exclaim, “Look! They’re boyfriend and girlfriend!” Did you ever say, “Look! They’re boyfriends!” when you see too little boys sitting next to each other?

    My two year old Asian American daughter recently pointed out a picture of an Asian girl in a crowd of people of various skin tones – she told me that the Asian girl was her. I fully believe that she at least as some initial understandings about race means.

    I bring up race and gender and sexual orientation whenever it comes up. In my life, that is often. But, I hope that what my daughter learns from this is that it is fine, acceptable, and important to talk about race and gender and sexual orientation in a direct and meaningful way.

    Race isn’t just a historical issue – it is a fact about every day life in America. It should come up everywhere – the fact that it doesn’t makes it clear that us adults need to become more comfortable talking about it too. (I guess that’s where this website comes in handy!)

    That being said, I think that it is our responsibility as parents, educators, and engaged citizens to become more knowledgeable about how to talk about this issue. Because talking about racism, sexism and homophobia in an informed way is almost as bad as not talking about it at all.

    Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 3:22 pm ¶

11. kim wrote:

    “… their preparation efforts must do a lot of good.”

    And so we all prepare.

    Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 3:36 pm ¶

12. Meera wrote:

    Like Lyonside, I saw the movie Roots as a young child.

    My parents watched the series and while they didn’t exactly sit me down to watch it with them, I was aware that it was on. The part that stuck in my mind forever (I think it was in Roots II, actually) was the scene where the runaway slaves had reached the Canadian border and were faced with the choice to stay in the states or keep going even further towards freedom. Tears form in my eyes this very minute, as I remember how half of them walked across that narrow trestle, giddy with delight, to beome free. I was young, but I needed to witness that. Do most people even know how most black Canadians even got there? All of them aren’t West Indian.

    Did I need to see Kunta Kinte (played by the actor who our kids now associate with Reading Rainbow, Levar Burton) getting whipped by his master until his back was shredded and bleeding? Was it age appropriate? Probably not.

    My 8 year old brother and his Jewish best friend, Ben got caught outside (my brother tied to a tree, Ben with a jumprope “whip” in hand) reinacting that scene (God I hope neither one of them ever read this). You can only imagine what my mother’s reaction was when she spotted them from the kitchen window.

    But to this day, I am thankful that I was exposed to these truths early, that my parents didn’t hide the shameful aspects of American history from me as if it was some deep, dark family secret. Their honesty gave me a basis for understanding what we’re left to contend with today.

    Not only did I need to see this I am black, I needed to understand this part of my history because I am an American. Slavery is an integral part of the historical foundation of this country. All Americans need to know their history, for better or for worse.

    Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 6:03 pm ¶

13. Meera wrote:

    Something else I was thinking:

    I wonder how early the parents of the majority of the college kids in the recent “gangta keg party” photos started discussing race and racism with them during their childhoods?

    I wonder if it was handled on a “need to know” basis’? I wonder if they ever really talked about slavery and racism or if they simply said “You shouldn’t make fun of black/Latino/Asian/other people, it’s not nice.”

    I’m willing to bet it rarely came up beyond that. And that they (the parents) were appalled to see their kids mocking “black people” on the internet.

    Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 6:12 pm ¶

14. Linda in NY wrote:

    Thank you for all of the insight. Boy, do I feel naive! I really didn’t have a problem with the teacher approaching the matter but I do have problem in that she didn’t discuss this with the parents first.

    I think that my son did have a problem with the some of the images. I don’t think the teacher fully explained to the class what they watching. My son had a lot of questions about the KKK (I think he’s scared they’re lurking around every corner). He really doesn’t understand “why we all can’t just get along.” The concept that people would harm others because of their skin color is something he has a hard time dealing with.

    At his age (9), I don’t think that he understands the power behind the n-word. I’ve explained that he will hear it at school, in the music he listen’s to, etc. I explained that the word is not to be used lightly, if at all. He compared it to a “curse” word.

    I’m really sorry that I didn’t talk to him about all of this sooner. As I said, his class/school is very diversified and he never come home from school telling me of any racial discourse. I guess I was hoping that things were different. I’m sorry to say I was wrong.

    Thank you all again. Linda from NY

    Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 9:08 pm ¶

15. Tim wrote:

    When I was in the 3rd grade, I saw a white boy call a black boy the n-word during a verbal dispute. When my younger sister was around the 3rd or 4th grade age, she and a friend of hers would sing a rhyme that was derogatory to Chinese and Japanese.

    So I definitely believe racial tolerance and understanding should be taught at a young age. But when explaining the historical aspects of racism, I think the explanation should avoid going into graphic details until the child is at an older age. A child should be aware of racism and it’s roots but a teacher/parent should be careful about creating racial boogie-men in the child’s mind. This country has a problem where many people think that if they are not like a racial boogie-man (a Nazi, a lyncher, a segregationist, etc) that they are not a racist person.

    Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 9:31 pm ¶

16. Sue wrote:

    I am new at school stuff. My daughter is in kindergarten. I am seldom forwarned about curriculum contents unless there is some homework involved, so am not sure how much I would feel I need to be.

    They get so much input from the culture at large that is not positive, that all I feel I can do about it is process things critically when they happen. I guess I see school as part of the at-large culture that I want her to learn to think critically about as opportunities arise.

    During Black History Month I have already had opportunities to talk to my daughter about racism in ways I didn’t expect, sometimes adding to the information she gets. Her teacher apparently neglected to mention that MLK was killed for taking a stand, probably because parents want to control when that information hits them and many would think age five is a little young. As far as I can tell after revealing that iformation, she did not then conclude that she would be killed for taking a stand: it just seemed to help her understand what made him so brave.

    I am finding her not to be especially fragile, and to be wise beyond her years in integrating the info and to be inspired rather than disturbed by learning about the ways people of color prevail in spite of oppression. (I want her to see that side, too.)

    But still, I shudder at times. It is really hard to see her innocence being taken away layer by layer.

    Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 9:43 pm ¶

17. Lyonside wrote:

    Sue: “Her teacher apparently neglected to mention that MLK was killed for taking a stand, probably because parents want to control when that information hits them and many would think age five is a little young.”

    My mom teaches 3-4 YOs, and she covers MLK year-round – she tells them that MLK worked so that everybody would be equal, no matter what they looked like or who they were. She also tells them that a bad man who didn’t agree killed MLK (without dwelling on details, the gun, etc. – these are lower income city kids, they see/hear enough of that). She also uses a nursery-rhyme that the kids probably remember for YEARS.

    Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 9:56 pm ¶

18. kim wrote:

    Tim:

    I have found that my children could process the idea of someone , outside of those in communion with King’s philosophy, wanting to permanently silence him, hoping that his ideas for goodness would then also die.

    They understood, at five, that the ideas for a unified mankind, a unified American society, were enough to make someone who did not hold to “goodness” angry enough to want to stop it.

    They understood that killing King did not stop the idea of a normalcy being created in the friendships, romances and business practices of Blacks and Whites laughing, loving, and going into enterprise together.

    They spoke with a sense of wonderment and awe, and plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face gratefulness for the fact of a ‘King’, when, in the Atlanta-Hartsfield International Airport two summers ago, we encountered something nearing an eight-fold standing wall tribute to King and the Civil Rights Movement, and stood to study and examine the pictures. The resounding (Mommy tears up right about now) concensus was, “I’m glad that Martin Luther King did all the things he did, Mommy, I’m glad there was (was!) a ‘King,’ because without him we would not be able to be a family.

    I am really proud of the people my children are, but I’ve got to tell you, on THAT day, I was proud to be a student and recipient of the grand legacy of Dr. King. And so full for being mother to those children.

    Posted 05 Feb 2007 at 10:42 pm ¶

19. Tim wrote:

    Kim:

    Thank you for sharing your expirence.

    My daughter turns 2 years old in March. It will be some time before I will have to face the challenge of teaching her about race issues, but it is something I need to prepare for.

    Posted 06 Feb 2007 at 2:03 pm ¶

20. my wrote:

    I agree that the time to talk is now, but you need to base how to say it on the age of the child. I have a 12 yr old and I used the news reports of the convention on the deniers of the Holocaust as an opportunity to further discuss why we need to learn about the Holocaust. I also brought it home by taking her online to the Spielberg site, and we’ve had an older family friend talk about his personal experiences in a camp. I reminded her that she might be one of the last generations to have personally met one of the victims, and so she had to pass her first hand knowledge on. That made her feel a certain passion about it. We used a recent family trip to DC to visit the steps of the Lincoln memorial to bring home the actual MLK speech and how he stood there and looked out over the mall.

    Unfortunately, you don’t always get info from teachers about what’s planned in the curriculum, and I find that a wasted opportunity to reinforce what the teacher is teaching.

    Posted 06 Feb 2007 at 6:18 pm ¶

21. Susan Raffo wrote:

    My daughter is four, almost five. We talk about racism, sexism, gender phobia, all of it although we don’t call it that yet – or we do use the words sometimes but at this age it’s more descriptive. Developmentally, we’re working everything in around the narrative that it’s important to let people be who they are, people are different, we honor their difference, really basic stuff. But we also talk about what racism is, that some people aren’t comfortable with queer families, that boys should get to wear pink, too, that girls can have very short hair, etc. At this age it’s all very linked in that it’s tied to how she sees herself in the world and what the world around her looks like. We are also talking about white privilege with her – again, not calling it that – but how unfair it is and how we have to think and work hard to pay attention. She’s pretty smart and often volunteers her own reflections on this. I think kids get it way earlier than we expect.

    Posted 08 Feb 2007 at 11:19 am ¶

22. Sarah wrote:

    I’m relatively new to this site and found this discussion very interesting. I don’t have any living children, so I haven’t had to put any of my thoughts on being an antiracist parent into practice yet. But it is something I’ve been thinking about for a long time, and try to follow through on when a friend’s four year old asks me questions.

    I think this weeks Nova show on PBS may be something that could add to a child’s education on race issues (in school, to supplement school movies, or in a home schooling environment). The show was about Percy Julian (a black chemist, and a very inspirational man) and I thought it did a good job of describing how his career was constrained by the racist attitudes of other scientists at the time. It also includes some discussion of how he and his family were targeted by racial violence when they moved into a new community.

    Posted 09 Feb 2007 at 9:51 am ¶

23. lussigagas wrote:

    300 is a great movie full of visual effects and graphics which made it different and much better.
    Acting was great, director did a wonderful job and chose great actors, full of action, and it is based on a true story.

    Posted 31 Mar 2007 at 3:04 pm ¶

24. Lyonside wrote:

    lussigas: Thanks for the movie review (not). What does this HAVE TO DO WITH the thread?

    Literacy is a dying art, evidently.

    Posted 31 Mar 2007 at 4:12 pm ¶

25. Rebekah wrote:

    I am doing a paper for middle school about how sexist and racist comments should not be aired on the radio. I found this website in hopes of seeing how children are effected by these comments. All parents need to understand how difficult it is to fully grasp how severe Racism, and sexism are as a child. I ‘ve learned so much about Hitler and the KKK. This teacher should not of started with such a graphic way of teaching 9 and 10 year olds but she should have breached the subject and you as parents should make sure your children do not get the wrong idea. Some kids at my school joke about hitler and racism. They believe its funny to say racist remarks and pretend their nazis. Just dont let your kids become the kind i detest at school. Thanks

    Posted 15 Apr 2007 at 11:53 am ¶

26. KenMarshall wrote:

    Thanks for helping

    Posted 16 Apr 2007 at 3:13 am ¶

27. Karen wrote:

    Lyonside, can you post the nursery rhyme that your mom teaches the children?

    Posted 10 Sep 2007 at 2:37 pm ¶

28. Lyonside wrote:

    Sure, Karen! This is from memory, but if I get it wrong, I’ll repost:

    Martin Luther King was a mighty good man,
    A mighty good man was he.
    He was a preacher and a teacher and a man of God,
    And he loved you and me.

    Posted 11 Sep 2007 at 3:54 pm ¶

29. enzymnSueheve wrote:

    Is this gonna end someday??

    Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 2:23 am ¶

30. Lyonside wrote:

    enzymnSueheve – will WHAT end? A little more commentary when reviving a 11-month old thread would be really helpful.

    Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 12:05 pm ¶

31. Attannyrixgat wrote:

    Hi, everybody!

    I think, that this is a great forum. Very intresting and useful.
    But I can’t find the search function, cause I want faster find the topics that could be intresting for me to express my opinion…
    Please help me with search function on this forum!

    Posted 05 Oct 2008 at 3:22 pm ¶

32. deesha wrote:

    Atta,

    The search box is towards the top of the page, right side, between “Subscribe to this Blog” and “About this Blog”.

    Posted 06 Oct 2008 at 11:52 am ¶

33. Zswtrbor wrote:

    Thanks!,

    Posted 13 Dec 2008 at 1:47 pm ¶

34. zervannawep wrote:

    Hi people

    As newly registered user i just wanted to say hi to everyone else who uses this board :>

    Posted 23 Dec 2008 at 7:14 am ¶

35. AlexStivenson wrote:

    How you think, in our situation whis crisis its actual?

    Posted 14 Feb 2009 at 7:16 pm ¶

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