Open thread

16 Responses to Open thread

1. T says:

   September 18, 2008 at 8:51 am

   Our school (K-8, public, alternative, moderately diverse racially, west coast) is getting ready to do our annual fundraiser. People have noted that now that we’ve reached 40% of the population having Free & Reduced Lunch, perhaps we can admit that kids have more important things on their plates than raising money for the school. In other places, I’ve heard about fundraising as a communal activity that promotes a sense of the unity of the school. And of course, no public school ever has “enough” $ in the kiddy for the classroom. What’s your take? T.
2. Yoli says:

   September 18, 2008 at 10:38 am

   I just left an adoption group online I had been on for a couple of years. This is an adoption board for China. You would think that people would be sensitive to the topic of race. However, time and time again, the founder states that the only rude comments she has gotten about her adoption have been from Hispanic women. Aside from finding it hard to believe, the generalization here is upsettting. Not to mention that I am a Hispanic woman who has two children from China. This is not the first time, as I have said, that this has happened. However, since being a member of Anti-Racist-Parent, I have learned a lot. Thanks for letting me vent today.
3. Wanderinglady says:

   September 18, 2008 at 12:38 pm

   @T:

   Ah, yes, fundraising season. I bought a candy bar from a kid and her mom in front of the subway station yesterday. And I got the “fundraising” flyer from my son’s preschool the other day (he’s three years old). It’s filled with things that people really don’t need. I have no problems with fundraisers, but at least at my son’s school, it doesn’t contribute to a sense of unity at all.

   As far as your school, it sounds like maybe a new approach to fundraising is needed. Of course, it would require effort on the part of busy parents and teachers to come up with one. Wish I had more of a suggestion for you, but it seems that the school fundraiser is a necessary evil these days. Anybody remember the old bumper sticker, “it will be a great day when schools get all the money they need and the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber”?
4. Tina says:

   September 18, 2008 at 12:46 pm

   How do I get over this sometimes crippling fear about the negativity that my son is going to face as he gets older because he’s a “young black man” the second he walks in the room? He’s a fantastic kid, very bright charming and talented; but I worry that he will be excluded just based on someone’s ignorant perception of what/how “a young black man” is supposed to be. He just told me that he wants to attend Carnegie Mellon and after getting over the initial shock of how much the tuition will be when he’s ready to go, (he’s 12), I immediately started thinking of ways to make him “raace neutral” so he won’t be stereotyped. Please, someone tell me I’m overreacting!
5. PureGracefulTree says:

   September 18, 2008 at 1:02 pm

   Dear Yoli,

   I’m so sorry to hear what happened. Sadly, I don’t think being an adoptive parent (and please note that I am not one) automatically sensitizes one to issues of race, which is why groups that prepare parents adopting transracially are so important. I have a good friend, a white woman in my anti-racism group at church who recently adopted from China and I was so impressed at how much research she and her husband have done to make sure they are prepared to deal with race issues. My friend noticed that the gift they received from their hotel in China—a blonde Barbie doll holding a Chinese baby—was not inclusive of non-Caucasian adoptive parents, which I’m sure most people wouldn’t even think about.

   I’ve learned a little more about transracial adoption through my friends and through reading anti-racist blogs like these, and I’ve been saddened by some of the attitudes of privilege and entitlement I’ve seen, but also encouraged by those who do “get it.” I hope you are able to find another group that recognizes and values you.
6. Liza says:

   September 18, 2008 at 7:53 pm

   @ Tina:

   A common dilemma that used to be talked about a lot here at ARP — are we “making more out of certain situations” or “are we focusing on preparing our kids?” I come from the camp of “Hey, it’s better to prepare and get our kids to understand (in an age appropriate way) that, while we ARP’s are socially aware, not everyone is.”

   As a former Assistant Dean of Admissions (multicultural recruiting), here is my quick advice for parents of kids of color getting ready for college …. depending on the institution, some colleges are really under lots of pressure to increase their diversity (for very good reasons). An academically qualified student of color usually does well in the process. Not to be confused with “If you’re brown, you’re in!” (which, unfortunately, some students rely on the fact that they are diversity students to “get into” college). A student needs to be academically qualified for that institution’s measures.

   Specifically to your question: Simply for college admissions, I suggest NOT making him race neutral at all. Highlight the beauty and challenges of his experiences.

   For me, I do teach my kids that they can do whatever they want to do — ” Want to be an astronaut? Sure! Be a teacher? Sure! Be a kung-fu chef who also designs clothes on the side? Sure! Don’t let anyone stop you — and some people might — don’t let them. And, don’t you even dare think about stopping anyone else from achieving their dreams.” My kids are 5 and 3… I figured I’d start now….

   The more familiar I became with higher education, though, the more I realized that it’s not necessarily the school one went to, rather it was the opportunities he/she pursued while there.

   As a side to all this: What we need to focus on as a larger society is making sure that education is available and accessible to all of our people.
7. Yoli says:

   September 18, 2008 at 7:57 pm

   Thank you for your kind words.
8. atlasien says:

   September 18, 2008 at 8:08 pm

   Last year a major Chinese adoption message board had a semi-scandal because some posters voiced anger and bitterness about Chinese heritage parents getting expedited matches.

   I’m not involved in that community at all, but hearing about that really disgusted me.

   I once wrote a guest blog at rachelstavern.com about issues facing adoptive parents of color in online communities.
9. deesha says:

   September 19, 2008 at 5:11 am

   Tina, you’re overreacting.

   The bad news is, you can’t make your son “race neutral.”

   The good news is, you can’t make your son “race neutral.”

   How would you even begin? Thinking about it, everything that comes to my mind would require you to play with some stereotypes yourself. Would you dissuade him from “stereotypical” black clothing or speech, for example? What would that be?

   (I know we can’t read tone all the time online, so I’ll just say that I am not being sarcastic (for once!), just trying to work through your question logically–well, according to my logic at least…as I sit in the airport with only about 10 minutes of sleep…Anyway…)

   Your son looks the way he looks, and how someone chooses to perceive him is their problem, not your son’s or yours. Your efforts to try and “stop” stereotyping aren’t only futile, but you risk teaching your son that he’s not wonderful just that way he is, and that he is somehow responsible for other people’s racist perceptions. In the vernacular, some black folks call this “making white people feel comfortable with us” and dignity demands we don’t even go there.

   You write that you worry your son might be excluded from–opportunities?–because people stereotype him. Unfortunately, that possibility comes with the territory of the skin he’s in. In the event that happens, or you suspect that it happens–he, and you while he’s a minor, will need to fight that injustice.

   And gently I ask…Have you examined yourself, as all good anti-racist parents should, for the stereotypes you may hold? Are you concerned that your son will be lumped in with those “other” kinds of young black men, who aren’t fantastic, bright,talented, and charming? In other words, are you appalled by the notion of stereotyping in general–or just as it applies to your son? Your desire to somehow make your son race neutral suggests the latter.

   Instead of that, I suggest equipping your son to:

   *eschew stereotyping as it may be applied to him or any other human being

   *understand that it’s not his responsibility to “prove” that he’s not the stereotype of some racist’s nightmare

   *stand up for himself if anyone tries to deny him opportunities that are rightfully his

   *know that you will stand up for him as well

   *choose his friends and associates wisely–why would he even want to deal with people who would seek to exclude him based on stereotypes?

   I’m curious as to why you seem to think, based on your mention of Carnegie Mellon, that your son won’t be subjected to stereotyping at some point between age 12 and when he goes to college, that he hasn’t already. In Pittsburgh, my home and home to Carnegie Mellon , police shot and killed a 12-year-old black boy a few years ago. The stereotyping doesn’t wait until college.

   The reality is, you have limited control over how people perceive or treat your son. But you can equip him to never feel like he has to apologize for who he is or change himself to be more palatable to others. He’s human–that’s more than reason enough for him not to be excluded.
10. Lyonside says:

    September 19, 2008 at 9:11 am

    Re: fundraising – it depends on the type done and where the money goes. My daughter’s day care/preschool is non-profit and the money goes to support activities, new materials, etc. There are a bunch of fundraisers throughout the year, but so far the ones I’ve seen have been useful and educational. We purchase (or have other people purchase) $25 coupon books that include local businesses, restaurants, big chain stores, dept. stores, family-friendly entertainment things, museums, etc. and the school gets 1/2 the proceeds. The school gets free books from Scholastic depending on how many books are bought by families. But it’s not compulsary for any family. I have limits on the type of “fundraising” I’ll patronize: kids with buckets in the street, teenagers (usually girls) washing cars, and kids going door to door selling w/out a parent are things I really don’t support.

    A good fundraiser involves selling or making something people want and can use, and involves a decent kickback to the school, while not putting any kids at risk. Why is that so hard for some schools to do?

    Tina:

    >He’s a fantastic kid, very bright charming and talented;

    Foster that – don’t let adolescence or conformity pressures beat it out of him, encourage his interests, and don’t be too worried if they shift as he grows older (or if they stay the same).

    >but I worry that he will be excluded just based on someone’s ignorant perception of what/how “a young black man” is supposed to be.

    I don’t know what kind of environment he’s in school-wise or neighborhood-wise. Do you think he’d be excluded by black kids, white kids, or both? What other ethnic groups are around you? Who are his friends now? And what kind of high schools are options for you? All he can be is himself, and hopefully you can guide him into a secure sense of self.

    >I immediately started thinking of ways to make him “raace neutral” so he won’t be stereotyped. Please, someone tell me I’m overreacting!

    There is no such thing as “making” someone not in the majority “race neutral.” It can’t be done and it shouldn’t be done. Like any teenager he’s going to have to find his own way; being a minority is an additional facet of that.

    But there is nothing you can do to protection your son from stereotypes that exist in other people’s minds. What you can do, however, is be vigilant and aware of the actions people in authority may take if they DO have those prejudices, and teach him how to handle it quickly and with grace.

    I’m thinking particularly of biases some teachers may have towards black adolescents – if your son complains of bias in the classroom, even if he doesn’t attach race to the reasons, take it seriously but with a grain of salt. Sometimes the bias complaints are legit, sometimes what a student sees as bias may be a teacher trying to challenge and motivate a student with a lot of potential. And sometimes even a good student slacks off, and gets called on it – and they may perceive it as bias.

    There are things that every teenager/young adult, esp. a minority one, needs to do to counteract institutional racism and bias, such as using the Queen’s English and being very polite at a traffic stop. But what needs to be emphasized is that being aware something could happen because a few percent of a population thinks/acts this way isn’t the same as thinking that everyone thinks that way.

    I’ve had times growing up where I definitely jumped the gun on assuming why I was feeling oppressed or dismissed by people with some control over my grades, my activities, etc. Sometimes I assumed it was race or gender or both. In hindsight, I would say that 75-80% of the time, I was wrong.
    But the other 20% were so obvious, I could see what was happening as it happened, even if I couldn’t do much about it. Those early experiences that made me question things have made me more vigilant as an adult.

    I can think of a few instances where I was able to quickly assess a bad situation with bias and mitigate it, because in the back of my head, I knew it was not probable, but at least possible. Some majority friends were shocked into inaction – it wasn’t part of their worldview and they couldn’t deal (or even admit it was happening). But the majority friends who GOT it already were the ones who noticed things were not right, and had my back. Not surprisingly, those are the friendships that have survived.
11. Tina says:

    September 19, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Deesha,

    Thank you for that virtual slap! I never thought of it that way. I can see how my own “ideas” about other people’s perception have clouded my thinking. BTW, I am appalled by the notion of stereotyping in general.

    And Lyonside,

    Thank you as well.

    You have both given me a lot to think about. I will most likely share this thread with my son so we can discuss it later.
12. Psychobabbler says:

    September 19, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    Atlasien, thanks for posting that link. I’m commenting here rather than on Rachel’s Tavern, since it’s an older post. While they may not be visible in the blogosphere, there actually is a significant Indian-American online adoption community. One of the 2 Yahoo groups that are geared towards Indian heritage families adopting from India has a membership of over 1200. Some of the members are also members of the general India adoption group. I suspect that, like myself, there are many more white APs with Indian partners and Indian APs, who have become disillusioned by listserv antics (which, on the general list, does include ignorance on the part of some white adoptive families) and have moved on.
13. Andrea says:

    September 20, 2008 at 12:00 am

    @Yoli,
    I’m a white adoptive mom of a child from China, and my observation is that sadly adopting transracially absolutely does not cause parents to be aware about racism. In fact I rather think that some of the people who adopt from China specifically have some of the worst racial stereotypes. Some (certainly NOT all) buy into the worst of the exoticizing of Asian women, and call their own daughters things like “China Doll” and “Chinese America Princess.” Some seem to have adopted from China expecting a sweet, compliant Asian girl, or an A-student, or with the idea of rescuing the child from China and, apparently, Chineseness. These people need an attitude change and a heck of a lot of education, but it certainly isn’t your responsibility to do that, and I can totally understand, especially if you are talking about the big China adoption yahoo group, why you would leave.

    Maybe you would like to join the yahoo group International Adopt Talk, or IAT. It is a place where adoptive parents can listen to, learn from, and dialog with Adult Transracial Adoptees. There are some amazing discussions and open dialog about race and adoption. Here’s the link:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/International-Adopt-Talk/
14. Calimom+3 says:

    September 20, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    T –
    WalMart has a program where schools recycle plastic bags (all kinds) and they give schools money. You can approach neighborhood grocery stores and possibly set up collection bins there as well as at school. No mattter the economic standing – everyone has plastic bags! Our school made over $2000.00 last year.
    Also – approach local businesses to do coupons for services. For example – our local do-it-yourself car wash made a coupon where an $8 wash is $5 and we get $2 for each used coupon. We got several hundred dollars and all we did was pass out the coupons at school. The local pizza place & smoothie place also do it.
    Also check out Box-Tops-For-Education.
    One last idea – Albertsons & Vons/Safeway have community connections where people connect their grocery card to our school and we automaticcaly get a % of each purchase. Once again we just connected to services that our student body already uses. And none of these require door to door soliciting.
    Let me know if any of these work out. Good Luck!
15. deesha says:

    September 21, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    Tina…you’re welcome! But I didn’t intend a slap…maybe a virtual noogie? I wish you and your son much peace!
16. Roger says:

    September 22, 2008 at 8:52 pm

    I am of the bloodlines of Lee, Wong, and Chan, and our ancestors have been in America since around 1847, making us some of the first Chinese in America. We have remained 100% Chinese by blood pretty much until the new millenium. I have also served at the Federal level on the Federal Asian and Pacific American Council and the Asin American Council of our Nation’s Capitol. I share this with you because I have devoted a great deal of my adult life as an Asian American advocate. The heart of our problem is that it is the non-Asians who lump us together and consider us to be the most homogeous of the ehtnic subgroups in America in spite of the fact that even in China alone, not to mention the some odd 67 other distinct indigenous Asian cultures, none of which share a common language, belief system, culture or art all of which define a people as a group. South America has many countries but they still predominantly speak Spanish, subscribe to Catholicism, and share many cultural arts. Secondly, the Jews have a very appropriate saying that not only applies to them but to all immigrants who have come to America, they say ” what the grandfather knows, the son wants to forget, and the grandson wants to remember”. Because Asian Americans can not blend in unless or until we mix races, even multigenerational Asian Americans like myself are treated with the same indignities and disrespect as any new immigrant. I have often said that if I was Russsian instead, and never traveled outside of Russia, but somehow learned to speak English, even with an accident, and then came to America I would be assumed to be an American much faster than this multigenerational Asian American would be who speaks nothing but English and has never had an accent. Insult to injury, each new wave of Asian immigrants who are focused on assimilation inadvertantly does more harm to the state of Asians in America then they do in helping our cuase due to a lack of historical perspective and understanding of the racial issues in America, particularly in the larger context.