Open thread

13 Responses to Open thread

1. Kristin says:

   July 30, 2009 at 10:33 am

   I was recently at a transracial adoption conference (I am the white mother of an adopted daughter who is black) where a young black woman got up and said, “You brought us here in chains.” or something to that effect. I remember being a little shocked since the comment seemed out of place in that forum. I have heard stars like Bill Cosby say that we need to move beyond that kind of thinking. She went on to say that it was the fault of white people that stars like Beyonce straighten and die their hair. I didn’t understand how that could be the fault of white people.

   The purpose for my post is to try and understand the thought process behind these comments. I know that I am ignorant in many ways about racism and its impact. I just see my daughter as my daughter, but I want to be aware and informed about issues she will face as a black woman.

   I would be interested to read comments from readers about this thought process.
2. Heather says:

   July 30, 2009 at 11:19 am

   We were at the school the other day for a kindergarten literacy readiness test and there was a father and his son there before us. I’m still angry at the dissaproving tone the teacher/test proctor took with the father for his son’s lack of skills–she went over all the things he couldn’t do afterwards with the door open to the waiting room. Even after they left she was joking with me what a “treat” it would be to work with my daughter since the other boy spoke no English. I was speechless and want to follow up in some way, but am not sure where to start. Any thoughts?
3. agibean says:

   July 30, 2009 at 2:40 pm

   Kristin,

   I can’t speak for anyone but myself and my own experiences as the white mother of a biracial daughter, who has always been seen as black by society at large…but I believe that as the adoptive mom of a black child, you’d BETTER get educated on racism, and soon. My DD heard her first racist remark in a context that she understood it, at the age of 3. Whether Bill Cosby or anyone else thinks we should “move beyond it” or not, it’s still out there.

   And, what better place than a forum on minority adoption than for a person of color say what she feels about her heritage?

   My DD identifies as black, though she makes a point of learning about and being proud of her European ancestry. She went through a phase of being very upset that people who look like me brought HER ancestors here in chains, and enslaved them. She still identifies very strongly with that aspect of her background, at 9.

   We talk about it often, as well as the racial issues she and her relatives have faced-yes, even after Brarack Obama was elected and we “should be beyond this”. She once said to me, “No offense, Mom, but you’re white,” in an effort to explain how she feels.

   And she’s right-I can’t completely understand, because I have never, and will likely never hear a racial epithet directed at me like she did at school. MY ancestors came here in first class on a ship, some of her were in chains. I can trace at least part of my family tree back to Columbus. Part of hers goes back maybe 80 years, if you count micknames and hearsay.

   And you’ll understand the comments about Beyonce soon enough. Just wait until your DD cries about her nappy hair, or wants it pressed “like everyone else”, or YOU begin to notice that the shiny, happy white kids on TV and in commercials far outnumber the black ones in the anti-drug ads, or seem to happily be playing with white dolls or dressing up like white pricesses.

   I’ve been fortunate that my black husband and his family have helped me understand when I need answers to understanding DD’s mixed heritage, whether it’s skin care or her natural anger at slavery. I can manage dealing with twit kids at school just fine on my own.

   There’s a fine organization for transracial adoptees and their families, though they address mixed-race issues as well, called the MAVIN Foundation. You can find it online-they publish a huge book full of advice and resources too.

   Good luck.
4. Montclair Mommy says:

   July 30, 2009 at 2:57 pm

   @Kristen, I would start by reading some of the posts and comments on this blog and on http://www.racialicious.com. There are other blogs suggested on racialicious that you might want to check out. What the woman may have meant (I can’t speak for her) is that the history of Black America is very different than that of White America. Black Americans, for the most part (not trying to exclude African immigrants) did not choose to come to this country. They were forced to come here and then they helped build this country for absolutely no recognition and no pay. Many many white people got rich off the free labor they stole from Black people and yet there is still denial that has impacted this current generation. As a white women, you CANNOT take the word of one or two Black people in the media as the stated feelings of Black people as a whole. Bill Cosby has his own opinions but you have to remember, Bill is famous and is very very lucky in that he was born with great talent and support in his household. He is not the same position as many Black people. In addition, he may be speaking to try to encourage his community to look towards the future, but it is NEVER our place, as white people to say something like that. We are not, and have never been, a racial minority so we do not know what it feels like and we have no place to say what they should or should not forget, move on from, etc.

   I understand where you are coming from. I am the mother of a Black son and sometimes when I delve into the issues of race I get really discouraged. I feel like I can never, no matter how hard I try, do right by him. Sometimes I wish I could unlearn everything I have learned and teach him just to do his best and to ignore the fact that people might judge him based on his color. But that wouldn’t be fair to him. If you step back and look at movies, books (children and adult books), TV, commercials, etc, you will see that there is a dearth of women and girls that look like your daughter. Blockbuster hits generally have white female leads (often of the skinny and blond variety ie: The Ugly Truth) and, if they do feature a Black female character, she is a side note at best. Very rarely do you see Black female actresses, musicians, models, etc that have not had any work done, that wear that hair naturally, and that represent what is seen as “typical Black female attributes” (that’s phrase is problematic as it is, I know). And don’t make any mistake in thinking that that is an accident. If you read the recent post by the author who couldn’t her book published with a Black girl on the cover, you’ll get a glimpse. If you read the posts on this site and on other sites about Jasmine the newest Disney princess (and first Black princess) you’ll get a feel for it, too. The powers that be feel like Black leads and natural Black women and girls do not sell. And who do you think the powers that be are comprised of? You got it. White people. So Black women that want to be successful in Hollywood, NY, etc, have to alter themselves to look a certain way. Now, of course, White women do often have to do the same thing, but they don’t have the same racial implications. People are telling them to be thinner, bigger busted, etc, but they are not telling them to be lighter, have longer, straighter hair, get a nose job, etc. Its different, I think. And did you know that many Asian women in fashion, TV, movies feel pressured to get their eyes done? Its really very sad how the media is whitewashing everyone. I think that we, as white people, need to take responsibility for this. I have noticed changes in small things: lots of Black children (although usually they appear to be of mixed racial background) in print and TV media, more inclusive books. But if you stop and think about how it will feel to your daughter to be bombarded with images of girls who look nothing like her, I think you’ll start to understand what this woman was talking about. For the most part, all you can do is educate yourself and try to see things as she will see them. And read White Like Me, by Tim Wise. Great book.
5. Montclair Mommy says:

   July 30, 2009 at 3:09 pm

   @agribean, love your post. It came up after I posted mine and I like what you said better.

   I dread that day, and I know it will come, when my son says “You don’t get it. You’re white.” I do feel lucky that at those times he can go to my husband, his grandparents, his aunt or uncle, etc. @Kristen, I think that’s another reason why its crucial to have close Black friends to serve as adult role models (if they are okay with it) to your daughter when she grows up and faces those issues. You don’t want her to feel like she’s alone and isolated in her feelings of anger or shame.

   I almost wish I could go back in time to when I didn’t analyze every TV show, commercial, movie, book with such an eye for racism. Its so disheartening to see how many things are offensive and uninclusive. For example, how about Glenn Beck’s comment about President Obama!??! I wanted to jump through the TV and slap that man! What a freaking moron!! I had to turn off the TV before I had a heart attack and I wasn’t even watching the original, but the replay on The Daily Show! So President Obama is racist, but not the neighbor who called the p0lice on Prof Gates???!!!! It makes my heart pound just to think about it. That people can make ignorant statements like that and get a paid forum to do it makes me think that we still have a long, long, looong way to go.
6. Julia says:

   July 30, 2009 at 4:00 pm

   Kristin,
   Do you think that the woman who spoke might have been adopted transracially herself? If so, she may be speaking partly from her own difficult experience. Many transracial adoptees have had a rough time, often because their needs (as far as race, belonging, etc) were not taken into account (generally because adoptive parents didn’t know any better). It’s helpful–I’ve found–to understand how this can feel by reading blogs of adult adoptees who were transracially adopted. Just be prepared to feel defensive at first, and try not to let that turn you off. I think there’s a lot there of value if you can hang in there. I have a list of the ones I’ve found to be most useful on my blog on the right sidebar: http://nobody-asked-you.blogspot.com (I also have a bunch of posts about hair and the politics of that, but so, for that matter, does Tami–you might check those out re the hair comments this woman made)

   All best,
   Julia
7. Kristen says:

   July 30, 2009 at 5:47 pm

   Hey Kristin,
   Yes, I think that the bristling/defensiveness you feel at first is something all of us need to push past, but especially as adoptive parents. It is not personal. It’s important for white people to acknowledge that our race has committed atrocities against another race. (Okay, many others). It doesn’t mean you are personally blamed for that – but at the same time we can be empathetic and take some responsibility for making it right.

   The hair thing – obviously there is culpability on many levels, and Beyonce herself is perpetuating the issue by her choices. But when you look at the mainstream (white) images of beauty that are put before young girls, it is very lacking in diversity. I could write a novel about the hair issue, but I think others have already said it better. Yes, check out Tammi’s blog and Julia’s links, and spend some time at this website, too:
   http://www.nappturality.com
8. Kristen says:

   July 30, 2009 at 5:53 pm

   Anyone else dying to by a fly on the wall at the Obama/Crowley/Gates meeting today?
9. Susan says:

   July 30, 2009 at 9:41 pm

   I am really happy with this blog. There are days that I feel very sad about race relations in this country.

   It is so refreshing to hear from whites who are not afraid to talk about race.
10. karen says:

    July 31, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    I have a couple of questions about YA literature by, for, and about POC. The questions are inspired by a comment in the other thread where a commenter mentioned an “urban fiction” section in a library or bookstore.

    1) I cringed at this use of “urban.” (not the commenter’s use, the store’s use.) Am I alone here?

    I teach at a VERY diverse highschool in Toronto. The largest demographic group is South Asian (though this is actually composed of three main subgroups) is only about a quarter of the student body. The black population is split amongst Northeast African immigrants, Carribean immigrants, and African-American. Well, African-Canadian, I guess but nobody says that.

    2) Do you think my school, or any school, should have a separate section for YA fiction by, for, and about POC? If so, what should that section be called/not be called? If not a section, perhaps another marker, e.g., a sticker on the spine, would be helpful?

    If nothing else, I can see that this exercise might reveal to the library whether/that its resources are very white-centric.

    3) Do you have another other thoughts I might consider before discussing these ideas with the librarian? FWIW, I find that our librarian is quite open to discussing matters of race and I’m not worried that I need to use kid-gloves.
11. Rosita says:

    July 31, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    I think there are some really good comments here. As a WP with biracial children (by birth, not adopted) I have known from the beginning that there are things they are going to go through that I will just never understand.

    I did have one thought about a comment above. I personally did not think the neighbor who called the police did it out of racism. Maybe I am missing something, but if I know my neighbor is gone, and I see two men trying to force the door, then I am going to call the police. I see the racism in the situation (for there is definately racism there) more in what happened after the police arrived.
12. Lyonside says:

    August 1, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Hi Kristin – I second everything everyone said above (including the link to MAVIN – they’ve done awesome work organizing marrow drives recruiting mixed-race people among other very cool things. Damn, I miss that magazine…)

    In addressing the defensiveness that not just white TRA parents but white people (at least in the US) feel, I’d like to add the “white privilege” aspect: One common argument i hear is, “But MY family came over during the potato famine (if Irish)” or “But MY family has been here since the 1880s and never had slaves…” Which is true for many white people. That unfortunately does not stop them from benefiting from privilege that originated in chattel slavery and its aftermath. So it’s not just about physical appearance, but about how society did and still does treat white people differently than non-white people, especially black people.

    Now, not all black people are descendents of slaves either – and many more have no idea about our history, slave or not, because it’s been taken from us through force, through psychological trauma, through family seperations and dysfunctions, through illiteracy, and through systemic neglect and failure of official recordkeepers to care much about black folks.

    And there is noone in the US who will look at black person and not assume a slave history, regardless of the truth.

    So that’s another part of the backdrop.
13. Rachael says:

    August 3, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    A new book has been released, What Else But Home: Seven Boys and an American Journey Between the Projects and the Penthouse, by Michael Rosen, that I thought other readers of this site might be interested in. It’s a wonderful autobiography that promotes tolerance and love across racial lines. Enjoy!