[Editor's note: On Monday, columnist Liz Dwyer wrote about the stereotype, present even in black communities, that all black parents spank. Liz's post made columnist Deesha Philyaw recall a similar post that she wrote, which was originaly posted at Literary Mama.]
written by Anti-Racist Parent columnist Deesha Philyaw
A black comedian riffs on the subject of parenthood on BET’s late-night laughfest, ComicView:
“You wanna know the difference between black parents and white parents?” he begins. “In public, white kids…embarrass they parents. Black parents…”
The 99% black audience chuckles with anticipation.
“… embarrass they kids.”
While the audience erupts with knowing laughter, the comedian demonstrates the stereotypical white child screaming, “Mother, I hate you!” at the permissive white mother; versus the loud, no-nonsense way the stereotypical black mother corrals her kids with threats (“Girl, I’ll knock you into next week”) and a ready backhand (or shoe).
The comedian offered this as a universal truth: Black parents don’t play. Black parents don’t believe in “time out.” Black parents spank their kids.
Except some of us don’t.
That’s it. That’s my dirty little secret. I’m a black mother who doesn’t spank her kids.
But don’t you understand? For as long as black folks have been in this country, we have had to keep our kids in line, by any means necessary. For us, it was a matter of life and death.
“Was” being the operative word here. Gone are the days when whining and complaining or disobedience could get a child’s entire escaping family captured, sent back to the plantation, whipped, hobbled, or killed. Gone are the days when whistling at a white woman (or even being falsely accused of it) would get a 14-year-old black boy lynched and his unrepentant murderers found not guilty, and then bragging about the crime in a national magazine. (See Till, Emmett.)
Now you’ll never hear me say that black folks have completely overcome. Racism and discrimination may no longer wear white sheets, or wield fire hoses and dogs, but they are still alive and kicking. But in 2006, I’ll be damned if “know your place,” and “don’t piss off white folks” are among the life lessons I instill in my daughters, much less spank them to drive the message home.
That said, the reality is that black children are often scrutinized more closely than white children. A black kindergarten boy is labeled “unruly, threatening” by his teacher. Meanwhile, his white counterpart is “spirited, rambunctious.” Baggy jeans, hoodies, and “bling-bling” are “gangsta” attire when wore by black kids; when white kids wear them, it’s stylish rebellion. Black adults are also held to higher standards. Many feel compelled to work twice as hard as their white counterparts just to make the same progress professionally. And then there are those “helpful” sales clerks trailing behind us in stores because we might try and steal something. Guilty until proven innocent.
So, as the conventional wisdom goes, we — and our children — must be on our best behavior. But even accepting this reality, I don’t believe that spanking is necessary or necessarily effective.
These kids nowadays? They call 9-1-1 or Child Protective Services on a parent who tries to spank them. That’s why so many of them end up in jail, on drugs, or can’t keep a job.
I seriously doubt black kids are making such calls en masse. To blame criminal behavior and unemployment on parents not spanking is illogical as well as inaccurate. It also gives a free pass to the systemic injustices and neglect that contribute to what ails us a community.
“But aren’t you afraid she’ll end up in prison?”
Contrary to the ComicView comedian’s riff, “to spank or not to spank” does not fall neatly along color lines . The above is a direct quote from a friend, Sue (not her real name), who is white. Sue’s oldest child is the same age as Taylor. We bonded as first-time moms, and became friends in spite of our different parenting styles, including my decision not to spank Taylor. Sue asked what I thought about “Spare the rod, spoil the child,” which many consider a biblical mandate to spank. I shared Christian attachment parenting guru Dr. William Sears’ observation that the “rod” is akin to a shepherd’s staff, which is used to prod and guide sheep for their protection, not to hit them. But Sue remained skeptical.
When Taylor and Sue’s child were both eighteen months old, Sue said to me, “They’re into everything at this age! Surely you’ve spanked her by now.” I hadn’t, and said so.
“But aren’t you afraid she’ll end up in prison?”
“No…”
“Well, if she doesn’t learn to obey you, then she won’t learn to obey laws…”
“And end up in prison? You know, I bet that a lot of people sitting in prison right now were spanked as kids. I’m not saying that they are in prison because they were spanked, but clearly spanking is not an effective crime deterrent. If Taylor ended up in prison, I would wonder where I went wrong as a parent, but I wouldn’t question my decision not to spank.”
I pointed out to Sue that she wrongly equated lack of spanking in our family with lack of discipline. I don’t spank, but I’m not a permissive parent either. In our family, there are age-appropriate boundaries, rules, consequences, and most importantly, consistency. And yet, I don’t subscribe to any formula for parenting success. No one is guaranteed law-abiding offspring, whether you spank or not.
In settings where my children are the only ones present who have never been spanked, they have behaved as well if not better than the other children. They also have their Moments, as all kids do, spanked or not. So if I’m going to get the same results spanking as not, why spank? Other than self-defense or to protect others, hitting another person just doesn’t feel right to me.
As long as you don’t spank out of anger, it’s fine.
Well, then maybe I am a spanker after all. I’m just not a practicing spanker because the only time I ever get the urge to spank my kids is when I’m angry.
But weren’t you spanked as a child? And didn’t you turn out just fine?
Fine? I turned out fabulous! But so have plenty of people who were never spanked.
Some friends and I get downright nostalgic at times, laughing about “whuppings” past, about that bygone era when grandmothers sent you out to the backyard to get your own switch (a tiny, thin branch stripped of its leaves) for her to keep handy for when you misbehaved.
I don’t fault my mother or grandmother for spanking me, and I don’t challenge parents I know for choosing spanking as a form of discipline. When questioned, I explain that it’s simply not an option with my kids. I have been criticized by some friends and family members for this decision, accused of negligent parenting or the dreaded “acting like white folks.” Black people I don’t even know look at me like I’m Sistah from Another Planet when I utter a firm “no” to my hysterical two-year-old and discipline her in public without spanking.
Have my kids ever embarrassed me in public? On occasion, but fortunately, the goal of my parenting is not to save face. It is to raise two confident, compassionate, productive, socially-conscious — and yes, law-abiding — young women. So maybe my parenting style is not the stuff comedian’s punch-lines are made of, but it works for me and mine.
Wow, you’ve actually received pressure from peers to use corporal punishment? That amazes me – do other folks have that experience as well?
Wow, you’ve actually received pressure from peers to use corporal punishment? That amazes me – do other folks have that experience as well?
Dersk,
My stepmother told me she was going to “beat” my kids on g.p., just because I didn’t, not because of anything they actually did.
I am interested in others’ replies. I know I’m not the only one amongst my black-mama friends, but maybe we self-select, lol.
Also, when I posted another piece penned by someone else regarding spanking and black folks on my blog, I got an angry comment from a woman who apparently also read this post at LitMama. She came at with, essentially, “There you go again telling people not to spank. What are you going to do when it doesn’t work?”
I stated the obvious, which was that the post she was referring to wasn’t authored by me, that I hadn’t told anyone not to spank, and that when not spanking didn’t work for me, I’d let her know. Why she–or anyone– cares so much about my not spanking my kids is beyond me.
Wow, dersk, that’s a really patronizing way to frame that question.
I’m not black but I’m quite familiar with the dynamic Deesha is talking about, and have been for years. But even if I wasn’t familiar, I wouldn’t be halfway-accusing her of making it up.
I’ll just add by saying that the main reason we recently dropped our therapist is that at one point, she recommended spanking. We tried it for two weeks. It didn’t work.
I was talking about this with my neighbor friend, who is firmly in the “I’m a black mother who never spanks” camp, and she asked me if our therapist was also black, and was pretty disappointed but not surprised when I said “yes”.
I was also told that my children were going to end up in jail because we do not spank. I don’t believe that it is an effective form of punishment. To me it is abuse plain and simple.
I was spanked as a child and still hold much resentment about it. This is not the kind of relationship I want with my sons. I find it troubling that so many Black comedians can treat this as a laughing matter. I cannot even stand to hear them go down that road because it is emotionally triggering to me.
There are various ways in which to discipline and I think spanking reveals a failure of imagination. My children know that my word is law and that is not because I got physical with them but because I take the time to not only discipline but explain why said behavior is problematic. The issue with the high incarceration with Black youths today has nothing whatsoever to do with spanking and to reduce it to such is to ignore the ways in which racism, class, gender, etc., act.
Over at http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1311 you can listen for free to (or download the mp3 free until Saturday) an audio interview with the founder of the Harlem Children’s Zone, which contains an excellent discussion on class and corporal punishment in African-American society, plus some footage of young parents learning alternatives to spanking. It’s AWESOME listening.
T.
Great post!
My husband and I are both Asian-American, but spanking is also pretty common within our communities, as 2nd-generation Asian Americans with immigrant parents. Coupled with the cultural belief in most Asian countries where parents expect blank obedience from their children, it can sometimes create an environment where parents’ actions toward their kids are never questioned.
My husband and I were both spanked a lot when we were kids. But the spankings we got bordered on child abuse, since it was done excessively, even after the initial punishment was over. In fact, if you look at my husband’s back, you can see scars of the beatings he took from his mom decades ago.
As a result, we both agreed that spanking is a last resort when it comes to discipline. IMO, spanking can be an effective tool if:
1) It’s not used excessively.
2) Parents warn their kids ahead of time that spanking is a consequence as a result of doing a specific behavior. For example, I have a friend whose parents didn’t spank them unless he and his siblings are caught lying.
3) When it comes to safety, spanking is done immediately after the bad behavior. For example, no amount of positive reinforcement or preventative measures can quell a toddler’s curiosity at touching a hot stove. I’d rather push/spank my toddler to get the message across than have him get burned.
Introducing corporal punishment without a specific set of guidelines can create this gray area where parents won’t know when to stop.
All it takes is a parent having a bad day, and next thing you know, their kid acts up, and they’re taking their frustration out on their kid by spanking him/her over something minor. Or by using more force. Or by spanking longer than necessary.
As parents, we need to know what our shortcomings are. My husband and I are aware that we both have really bad tempers, which is why we made the decision that spanking is not the best way to discipline our kid. But maybe for other parents with cooler heads, it’s fine, as long as they can keep their feelings in check when disciplining their kids.
So…this isn’t the main point, but it kinda bothers me when folks try pinning “spare the rod, spoil the child” on the Bible – since that’s not actually IN there. [Not to say this is what you are doing here - just that it is a common misconception.] I’m sure they’re thinking of similar verses in Proverbs 23:13&14, so the idea is there, but it’s certainly not a direct quote.
I think the best advice in that verse is the intro: “withhold not correction…”. Correction doesn’t always have to be or even necessarily *ever* have to be corporal in nature. I tend to believe it depends somewhat on the demeanor of the child.
And I definitely agree that the ideas of spanking and discipline get conflated all the time. I know people who were spanked but not well-disciplined. So they’re certainly not the same thing. I don’t know a lot of people who weren’t spanked [that I know of], but then I don’t tend to talk about it with everyone. I’m sure there are people who weren’t spanked who turned out ok, too, though.
we were flying with our three children recently and my near two-year old was pitching a small fit right before the plane took off. he is african american. i am white.
an african american woman leaned over several people and mouthed the words from across the aisle, “just smack him”. she smiled encouragingly and mimed whacking on his thigh.
now, i am not un-used to constant scrutiny, but i will say that it took me aback. i’m not positive, but i’m pretty sure she wasn’t saying it to be malicious or patronizing, but rather to encourage me to do something she thought was absolutely necessary. but in the process, i felt patronized and uncomfortable.
to be fair– i’ve had many, many conversations about spanking vs. not with parents who are coming at it from a faith-based or religious point of view, regardless of skin colour.
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My husband and I volunteer at a church-based homeless shelter. Most of the clients are black. One of the little girls, about eighteen months old, was banging on the piano when her mother was trying to get her ready to leave for the day. When the girl wouldn’t leave the piano, her mother threatened “I’m gonna tear you up.”
That blew my mind. As volunteers, we’re not supposed to offer parenting advice but I wanted to say something.
Threatening a child who’s still in diapers just seems so mean. There are better ways of getting a child to obey but I guess this particular woman was stressed out and unable to come up with anything better. it’s been my observation that low income people of all races are quicker to anger and spank their children more readily than financially secure people. I think it has something to do with being overwhelmed.
Deesha, great post. I love the way you’ve framed the questions you get, and given authentic and well-thought-out answers.
Being a white mom, I don’t have much experience with this other than hearing umpteen comedy routines on the subject. And I agree with Renee – it’s disturbing and really not at all funny to laugh about a “beating”.
We do have my kids in a church choir at an African American church, and a few times the choir director has threatened to spank the kids if they aren’t behaving. It’s always a little shocking to me when she says that, but the other moms seem unphased. She’s never actually done it, so perhaps it’s just a threat. Still, definitely a moment of culture shock for me that I’m not quite sure how to handle, since being the only white mom there, I don’t want to be the only one making an objection to it.
I don’t see anything wrong with spanking as long as its not done in anger. That said, I think spanking should be an absolute last resort.
Kids are different, and will respond differently to different forms of discipline.
I’ve spanked my daughter a few times. But it is reserved for outright rebellion&rudeness.
And I don’t think this is something unique to black folks. I used to spend weekends with a white family friend when I was younger. And the mom would threaten the use of the “paddle” every now and then.
I’ve seen this comedy routine come primarily from comedians of colour. Russell Peters (of South Asian descent) comes to mind. He did an encore piece to one show wherein he spoke about white kids (who apparently were all products of permissive parents) and kids of colour (who apparently were all beaten regularly by their parents) at his school growing up. He implored all white parents several times throughout the routine to beat their kids, so that the white kids wouldn’t get left out of ‘man, my mama/daddy beat me so hard last night’ playground conversations, and so the kids of colour didn’t get into worse trouble with their parents for acting like white kids (e.g. threatening to call 911 for abuse).
I was unimpressed with his advice, not to mention the multiple stereotypes of white = permissive and parents of colour = beating their children for any perceived slight or just because.
My father spanked me all of once. My mother spanked me rarely, but she threatened me thousands of times with the wooden spoon. I choose not to spank (nor threaten) my child because I don’t believe that resorting to violence (calculated or spontaneous) solves anything. I do not believe that it furthers love and compassion and understanding in a relationship. I believe that it instills fear of one’s parents and that fear has no place in a truly loving relationship.
Thank you for making the necessary pronouncement that lack of spanking does not equal lack of discipline. My son is plenty disciplined. He does not run roughshod over either his father or myself. Yes, I have a temper, and yes, I’ve wanted to smack the crap out of him or throw him out the window. But I don’t do anything of the sort because I’m an adult and that’s not an option.
Thank you for shedding light on a historical reason for African Americans to use physical means of keeping their children in line. As a white person, who is currently mostly clueless in terms of race and privilege, I had never considered that.
Thank you for noting Dr. Sears’ analogy of rod = shepherd’s staff. It’s a very apt equation.
And thank you for your courage to buck trends and then to write about it in a public forum such as this.
I think spanking is also a rural, working class, white person thing. I got spanked, as did EVERYONE I knew in my high school (all of 70 people in my graduating class, so I really did know everyone.)
I was hit excessively and abusively, as were many kids. I still cringe away if anyone larger than me raises their hands in the air.
I won’t spank my kids, and reserve yelling for emergencies (reaching for hot stove, running out in front of me, etc.)
I find the shock of being yelled at stops them and brings them to tears, simply because they never get yelled at. It is just as effective as spanking, and it means I don’t have to hurt them.
@ Krista I agree; spanking tends to be on par with socio-economics.
That’s not to say that parents who spank are less intelligent, and parents who don’t are right-thinking. It depends on the parent.
As one who teaches White upper middle class students, for some, the parenting is almost non-existent.
Thank you for writing this article! I too have been criticized and judged for choosing to not spank my 3 sons. Before becoming a mom, I would have never thought making this choice would be controversial! I am a proud African American mother and I do not believe our “culture” dictates nor should encourage spanking, beating, etc…It makes me sick to hear comedians joke about this.
I am black and have a toddler who I have never spanked and don’t ever plan to do so.
I have seen family members spanking babies and almost grown 17 yo children. Most also do things that I consider abusive…Some have lost control and busted their 3-12 year old’s lip for lying or “pushed” their head so hard that they hit the floor like a brick. Some may feel bad later, but all nevertheless feel that it was a necessary lesson about not doing “XYZ”.
Recently, I asked my mom about a incident where I felt I was unfairly beaten when I was 7 (I asked to go to a friend’s house and my mom said to be home before the street lights came on, when I tried to go home my friend’s mom told me I had to stay for dinner and called my mom, my mom said it was fine, but when friend’s parent drove me home, I get inside and she beat the hell out of me)…my mother has no recollection of the event.
Personally, the only way I would be able to spank is in anger and therefore I choose not to do so.
I’m white and Christian – most people I know spank their kids still. I’m against spanking.
Before sharing my story below, I’d like to comment that most pro-spanking parents are “not” going back to the original scriptures from ancient Hebrew and Greek. It’s necessary to use a literal word for word translations, such as an ESV or NASB, *not* a paraphrase (The Message, NIV, Living). In original scriptures, you will see that the bible does not advocate spanking. Please google grace-based parenting, and you will find articles explaining this. The following is a good article that explains it well: http://www.christianitytoday.com/momsense/2003/summer/6.50.html
I grew up in a loving, Christian home and was spanked (not in an abusive way). The spankings always seemed wrong to me, and because I was a child, it seemed traumatic. I couldn’t understand why my parents would want to “damage” me… I honestly felt I was being abused. Naturally, this made me angry at my parents. I was constantly having to forgive. I turned out a good, loving person “despite” being spanked. I turned out good, because I was taught right from wrong, and in my heart, I knew that’s what I wanted for myself. My brother was spanked more than me, and I think all that did was make him all the more rebellious. He’s a good guy, but he’s still a rebel – not leading the Christian life my parents thought “spanking” him would ensure. I think spankings only make rebellious kids “more” rebellious. Children should obey because they want to, not out of “fear.”
Hi, Gentle Spirit…Thanks for the link to the article. I will pass it along!