Open thread

What’s on your mind this week?

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Deesha wrote:

I’d like to invite the entire Love Isn’t Enough fam to tune in (and call in!) to C0-Parenting Matters, the new live talk show my ex and I are co-hosting on BlogTalk Radio with Talibah Mbonisi, founder of WeParent.com, a resource devoted to African-American co-parents.

http://coparenting101.org/2009/10/22/co-parenting-does-not-mean-swingers/

Please join us!
~Deesha

Posted 22 Oct 2009 at 9:00 am ¶
Anonymous wrote:

I would love to hear some opinions on an issue that I am currently struggling with. I am in the process of selecting a school for my daughter to attend, and have identified one school in particular that I am really drawn to. There are many things about the school that make it seem like a good fit, and I am seriously considering enrolling my daughter for next fall. It is a private school, however, where the tuition is considerable and as a result, it is not the most diverse institution (another pressing topic, of course, in and of itself). I am further concerned by the fact that the curriculum is molded in large part by student (and parent) interests. On the one hand, this is one of the aspects of the school that I most appreciate; on the other hand, I worry that it might lend itself to an environment where the unique struggles and artistic expressions of people of color are not adequately represented in the curriculum. I would, of course, love the opportunity to present materials that I believe the children should study and which reflect our diverse world and its inequities. I worry, though, about the effect on my daughter of perhaps finding herself in a situation where she is the only child of color in the classroom and this difference is further reinforced by the fact that she has to be the one student who always brings the “diversity” to the table. In other words, I don’t want to put her in a situation at a young age where she has to represent her entire race (or all minority groups, for that matter). As a white woman, myself, of course, I don’t want to jump to the conclusion too quickly that this will be the case. There may very well be other white parents and students who are able and willing to contribute to the diversity of the curriculum; I just worry that there is a high likelihood this will not happen. And, of course, I worry about the composition of the student body in general, and how our family will fit in, what messages my daugter might internalize as a mixed-race child in an environment where no one else looks like her. I’m sure there are lots of other parents out there who have similar concerns when it comes to selecting a school, and I am curious how others have handled it.

Posted 22 Oct 2009 at 10:20 am ¶
Julia wrote:

Hey there, Anonymous,
These are all such good–and tough–questions.

If I were you, I would want to ask the head of school and relevant teachers exactly these questions. And I would insist on examples, if they claim that their curriculum already incorporates diversity. I suspect that you will learn a lot from their answers.

I would also want to suss out the school’s approach to diversity more generally. For example, do they have a scholarship program? If not, why not? (Personally, I have a real problem with private schools–and daycare programs–that advertise themselves as valuing diversity but do not offer scholarships.) Are the teachers diverse? If not, why not? What efforts, in general, is the school making to become more diverse AND to value diversity in its curriculum? Again, demand examples.

Finally, could you ask to talk to other parents of children of color? This might be the most helpful of all…

If it’s any consolation, i think you’re asking all the right questions. Good luck.

Posted 22 Oct 2009 at 11:44 am ¶
Good Karma wrote:

I have prepared a long response with a few painful personal recollections of being the only one who looks like me at my school. I don’t think I can post the full thing because it brought up a lot of things that are still difficult to think about, but the bottom line is that while of course you have to do what is best for your child, the cons of such an environment can easily outweigh the pros. As the “only one” I experienced a lot of subtle to not so subtle belittling incidents that still color the way that I think about myself now and that I am constantly fighting against. I think it was the best decision overall to send me to a vastly predominantly white private school for various reasons but it is not what I want for my biracial daughter. I think your concerns are valid and you should listen to them.

Posted 22 Oct 2009 at 12:23 pm ¶
Karen wrote:

On my mind today is beauty. More specifically, telling our children that they are beautiful. I know that the world will soon enough tell my young children, who are POC, that they are not beautiful. And simultaneously, it might minimise or patronise them with excessive emphasis on their “exotic” beauty.

On one hand, you want to fight fire with fire and help them believe they ARE beautiful. But on the other, isn’t this promoting shallow values? I actually cringe when people, strangers and loved-ones alike, compliment my childrens’ appearance, especially my daughter’s appearance.

And, of COURSE, the girl gets more attention for her looks. I don’t want to feed that. And yet, I do believe girls (in general) end up with more problems of self-esteem that are tied up with appearance. Which, makes positive reinforcement even more important. GAH. My head spins.

Posted 22 Oct 2009 at 3:28 pm ¶
Anonymous wrote:

My husband and I are both Caucasian; I am American and he is English. We will be adopting a child in the next few months and we are considering various different country programs right now. We will be first time parents and we both feel like we would be most comfortable parenting a Caucasian child. Does this make us racist? We live in a diverse neighborhood near Venice Beach CA. We only have 1 friend who is not Caucasian. I grew up in a diverse area and we are both MUCH more comfortable with diversity than we are in non-diverse groups/areas. Many of my cyberspace adoption ‘friends’ have adopted from Ethiopia and I know for sure we could hook up with a really diverse adoption crowd. I think my biggest issue is for our child feeling ‘different’ all the time. You know – everyone commenting that he/she obviously must be adopted since he/she doesn’t look like us. Thoughts and feedback?

Posted 22 Oct 2009 at 8:22 pm ¶
curlykidz wrote:

@ANONYMOUS I moved to a historically black neighborhood after my oldest child’s first year of kinder; there was only one other child of african descent in his entire grade. Due to some issues with the local school district, I wound up transferring my children to another school in a neighboring (white) suburb. The curriculum is more challenging and the technology is considerably more advanced, but my children aren’t performing as well academically in the new school as the years go on (my older two came into the district at the top of their classes in every subject, but have slipped into the middle in most areas), and I still hate that I had to sacrifice black teachers and administration (there is one at their new elementary school).

@Karen… I used to struggle with this too, but came to realize that my daughter didn’t see her beauty reflected in the comments of strangers and she still needed to hear it from me (The objectification of multiracial youth http://wp.me/p4dnb-37 )

Posted 22 Oct 2009 at 11:35 pm ¶
Andrea wrote:

Curlykidz, what do you think is responsible for the drop in achievement? It could be that having black administration and faculty has some impact on a black child’s self esteem and perception that academics is important and that he can achieve. On the other hand, a kid’s performance can differ in two different school systems if the curriculums are different or if he has classmates that perform at a different level than at the old school. I think a child’s performance on the same standardized test is probably a good indicator of performance, even if he’s attending two different schools. If the two school systems use the exact same tests and your child’s performance and ranking has gone down with the switch in schools, I’d be pretty concerned and might want to switch him back to the school where he did better.

Given a choice, I’d probably put a child into a school system with a more challenging curriculum, more highly qualified teachers and superior technology and try to make sure the child can go to a Brownie troop or a YMCA program or a black church or some other settings where he can make friends who look like him. But a private school would have to be pretty darned good to warrant spending the tuition and the public school would have to be pretty darned bad to warrant pulling the child out. You can always supplement a “good enough” public school with after school education — extra lessons, museum trips, trips to the library. I don’t think the private schools here offer as good a curriculum or have anywhere near the technology available that the public schools do. The private school kids end up taking classes at the public high school and playing on the public school’s athletic teams. The private schools offer religious education and a slightly more disciplined atmosphere and that is all.

Posted 23 Oct 2009 at 6:56 am ¶
denise wrote:

i attempted to comment on thea lims post about anita tedaldi. for some reason, my comments did not get posted. so im posting them here. hopefully, the person in charge of moderating those comments is different from the person moderating there.
this is the link to her post:
http://loveisntenough.com/2009/10/19/anita-tedaldi-guilt-and-white-privilege/

Here are my comments:

Ms. Lim, I do agree with some of how you feel about how Ms. Tedaldi’s
behavior.
I don’t think she’s accepted responsibility for what happened between
her and the boy she adopted.
I don’t think she realizes the serious implications in a child’s life
when he is adopted and that adoption doesn’t work out.
I think the fact that her girls were almost nonchalant about a boy who
was supposed to be their brother is unbelievable.

I do believe he is black, and perhaps this had something to do with her
decision to give him up.
I really don’t know.
(Here is a link to some pictures, with his face blurred out:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=anita+tedaldi&form=QBIR&qs=n#focal=6
2ce9010a2c502b5c1121763834e0a27&furl=http%3A%2F%2Fmsnbcmedia2.msn.com%2F
j%2FMSNBC%2FComponents%2FPhoto%2F_new%2Fg-tdy-091001-adoption4-6a.standa
rd.jpg)

But I think your psychological analysis of her emotions is outrageous.
And your comments are some of the most racist I have ever heard.
I think this was just a vehicle for you to express your anti-white
feelings.
I think you interpreted just about everything to support what you felt
way before you learned
of this situation.
How would you know what a regular human response is?
As it happens, grief can be a feeling one would have with the loss (not
just through death) of a child.

“Because the more privilege you have, the less likely you are to feel
guilt.”
“People of privilege are also strongly discouraged from feeling
compassion and connection to the world at large.”
Were studies done to confirm these comments of yours? Where did you get
this from?
Or are you making all this up as you go along? I feel that you are.

I believe you said that Ms. Tedaldi is on a mission.
I don’t think she’s the only one.

Posted 23 Oct 2009 at 7:34 am ¶
Good Karma wrote:

I have to say, the question about choosing a school has really hit a nerve for me. In elementary, my school also “valued diversity”. This was reflected in our reading material, field trips, big projects. But there is something really powerful about being the “only one” of something in your class when you are a little kid. I’ll share one relatively minor incident. One time when we had gym out on the soccer field, one of my friends started picking up the chalk that they make the lines with and started to rub it on my arms and legs so I could be “white and beautiful like the rest of us”. This was said completely without malice and even lovingly as she tried to “help” me. I laughed it off and didn’t really think about it again but it did crop up in the back of my from time to time. Even at that time I knew in my head that she was the one with the problem, but it did kind of stick with me.

You know, I don’t think I ever told my mom about that. I think that is important to note because once you send your kid out in the world, you can’t protect them from everything. I guess this is obvious but it bears repeating sometimes. From what I remember of my friend’s parents, they also would have been horrified at what had happened.

Nothing is going to change unless we as parents act, but I don’t think you should necessarily sacrifice your child’s well being for the sake of effecting that change. I do think you should definitely do what Julia suggested. But if you decide not to send your child there, tell them why and maybe reevaluate in a couple years.

Posted 23 Oct 2009 at 10:48 am ¶
Anne Morrissy wrote:

To anonymous from Venice Beach,

Adoption is the most personal decision you will ever make. You and your husband must be very comfortable with it. It will last a lifetime. Don’t do something you are not comfortable with to send a message to your peers. Don’t adopt a child of color, because you think you might be labeled a racist if you don’t.

Becoming a transracial family adds a layer of complication to the already complicated task of being a parent. Don’t do it unless you are ready. I have done it, and am very happy. I don’t mean to talk you out of it, but to make sure you move forward in a way you can live with.

Posted 23 Oct 2009 at 11:53 am ¶
atlasien wrote:

@Anonymous: if you aren’t comfortable with adopting outside your race then you shouldn’t do it.

I hope you realize that when it comes to the various Eastern European countries where you can adopt white children 1) they often have severe special needs, especially involving orphanage-related behavior 2) unlike adopting from the foster care system in the U.S., you will not receive any real information on those special needs in advance, and you will not receive any kind of health benefits or extra financial support in order to handle those special needs. Do you have insurance coverage for the latest psychiatric medications? Have you researched how much it costs to temporarily place a child in a specialized psychiatric facility? This is a strong likelihood that you need to be prepared for.

Another issue is that you are not guaranteed a white child when you adopt from an Eastern European country. Some children are of Roma heritage and this becomes more and more apparent as they grow older. White parents + Roma children = transracial adoption.

If the child is not Roma, there are still many transcultural considerations you need to take into account. Do you speak any Eastern European languages? Do you have any Eastern European relatives? Are you involved in any Eastern European communities?

These are all things I think you should consider very seriously.

Posted 23 Oct 2009 at 12:19 pm ¶
lovepeaceohana wrote:

Gosh, I’d spent most of the morning thinking about how awesome it is to have found a midwife who not only knows what polyamory is, but who didn’t try to discourage me from practicing it and even commiserated with me about how hard it is to build new relationships once you have kids … and now all I can think about is whether the schools in my area will be good enough for my little uns’ when they’re old enough. San Diego is pretty racially diverse but I struggle with schools as an institution because I generally think they’re inadequate to teach children how to learn and to appreciate knowledge. Not that I have the budget to unschool, but if I did, I’d love to.

Posted 23 Oct 2009 at 4:03 pm ¶
Carrie wrote:

I am a high school theatre teacher. My theatre department is planning on writing a group performance piece on the issues of racial identity and anti-racism. I have a very diverse student population and they are very enthusiastic about the project. My question is do any of you have any recommendations for curriculum resources or writing prompts for this kind of topic. I plan to look at Teaching Tolerance, but any other suggestions?

And to Anonymous who’s thinking about adopting–all the advice given so far is good. If you do think you might want to go transracial adoption read “Black Baby, White Hands” by Jaiya John. Eye opening and powerful.

Posted 24 Oct 2009 at 12:39 am ¶
wanderinglady wrote:

I’m starting to think about my son’s school experience. He is biracial (black/white), and the town we live in is mostly Asian and Latino (we live in the San Gabriel Valley in Southern California). I went to all-black elementary and junior high schools, and grew up in a mostly black neighborhood. I didn’t experience being one of a few black kids at school until college, the experiences of some of the commenters above are new to me.

My son is going to start kindergarten September of 2010, and I’m just wondering how to prepare him for it. He’s in a local preschool, and that preschool reflects the racial makeup of the city we live in. Academics is not a concern right now, but I wonder whether once he starts kindergarten, that he will not only will he be “the only one” but also may be affected by (knowingly or unknowingly held) stereotypes about black boys and academic achievement.

I’m about to schedule an appointment to visit the local school. Is there anything I should ask or look out for? Any other advice will be greatly appreciated.

Posted 24 Oct 2009 at 12:58 am ¶
Jana wrote:

Atlasien,

Not all Eastern-European kids that are in need of adoption have severe special needs!!!! That is one of the biggest misconceptions about Eastern Europe! Eastern-European countries are not backward, they take care of their kids as good as any other country in this world! Honestly, your response was very racist and it is simply a lie!

I am Eastern-European, I live in one of those countries and I have many friends who adopted from the foster care system. ALL of their kids are well adjusted, well behaved, smart, friendly, attached and warm kids! NONE of them suffer from any handicap!

Btw, in all Eastern-European countries you can take your “prospective” kid to the doctor and you can get detailed feedback about (if) they have any disorders and about their treatment. Atlasien, it is also very racist of you to imply that she should not consider adopting an Eastern-European child simply because they might have a disorder. Following your blog, I can see that you also adopted a child from the US with severe issues.

Kids are kids everywhere, and it really bothers me a lot people who are trying to discourage others from adopting Eastern-European children. They’re also in need of love and in need of parents and they’re NORMAL kids!

Also, Anonymous, you should know that you cannot internationally adopt from all Eastern-European countries. For example, I know that Romania and Bulgaria do not permit foreign citizens from adopting their kids.

Posted 24 Oct 2009 at 6:59 am ¶
Christina wrote:

My husband and I are parents through adoption. We adopted domestically. It is an open adoption, although more traditional adoption was available. We used social workers and an agency instead of private placement. We were at the hospital when our (twin) boys were born. Our children are of multi-ethnic heritage, but there were a number of birth mothers who wanted their child(ren) to be raised by parents who would more closely resemble them. Before adopting internationally, please consider domestic adoption. Contrary to the stories you hear, it is possible to adopt in the US and in our case, the entire process took less than a year.

Posted 24 Oct 2009 at 10:54 am ¶
atlasien wrote:

“Eastern-European countries are not backward, they take care of their kids as good as any other country in this world! Honestly, your response was very racist and it is simply a lie!”

I’m not lying. And you are contradicting yourself. There is no country in the world that takes care of their children well enough that foster care/orphanages/adoption is never needed…. and whenever these things happen, special needs are going to result. In fact, I’ve heard the claim that ALL adoptions are special needs, and even a healthy infant adopted the day they were born is still going to have attachment issues.

I am not singling out Eastern European countries. I am simply trying to counteract the myth that children adopted internationally from Eastern Europe have less special needs than those in foster care here in the U.S. They have just as many, PLUS there is less information about those needs available to international parents because of the language barrier and cultural difference.

I have heard so many stories of international adoptive parents forced to disrupt their adoptions because they were not prepared to handle the special needs of the children. The children often end up in US foster care.

Here’s a story my son’s ex-foster mom tells. She has adopted two foster children with FASD (fetal alcohol spectrum disorder). She know this going in. She had at least some medical history. After adoption, she continues to receive a monthly subsidy to help pay for extra costs like therapy. They’re both covered by Medicaid for psychiatric and physical problems (they’re both underweight and have bodies that look 4-5 years younger than they really are). They’re an integral part of the family, and are very loved. They might not ever live independently, but she’s had many years to prepare for their future in the least restrictive environment possible.

Her neighbor adopted a girl from Russia who turned out to have FASD. The family were unprepared. At the age of 11 they placed her in a residential treatment center and their daughter never came home again.

I’m not saying don’t ever adopt from an Eastern European country. I’m just telling people they should do it with awareness of the risks and with preparation for what can go wrong.

You’re also allowing your national pride to fuel prejudice against children with special needs. Children with special needs are not just symbols the moral failure of the nation… you’re speaking as though these children are BAD CHILDREN and they need to be denied and hidden. That’s just the kind of attitude that perpetuates their mistreatment!

My son has some special needs. I don’t consider them severe. But if they were severe, I wouldn’t be ashamed to admit it. And he is “well adjusted, well behaved, smart, friendly, attached and warm”. None of those qualities precludes having special needs.

I’m aware that there is a lot of ignorant prejudice against Eastern European countries in the U.S., but I am not singling any of these countries out for criticism that I wouldn’t give my own country, or any other country. And in fact, I think these children are being failed twice: once by their own countries, and then by OUR country, which doesn’t regulate international adoption enough so that parents are reasonably informed, and then doesn’t support those families with mental health services, so that even when the adoptive parents are desperately trying to get their children the help they need, they bankrupt themselves and the children end up in foster care or institutions again.

Posted 24 Oct 2009 at 9:57 pm ¶
Christina wrote:

@atlasien: “In fact, I’ve heard the claim that ALL adoptions are special needs, and even a healthy infant adopted the day they were born is still going to have attachment issues.” Really? Where did you hear this claim? I’ve never heard it, and I did extensive research before becoming a parent through adoption. I won’t speak for other adoptive parents, but my children are just as attached to me (and I to them) as if they were my biological children.

Posted 25 Oct 2009 at 2:29 pm ¶
Andrea wrote:

Older kids usually don’t end up in foster care if there aren’t significant problems in the home environment or with the biological parents and that’s going to be true in Eastern European countries as well as elsewhere in the world. If I were planning an adoption, I’d go in assuming the worst and hoping for the best. The worst is a kid with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and associated learning and emotional and developmental disabilities; likely ADHD, reactive attachment disorder or milder attachment issues in addition to the language and cultural barriers that are inevitable with an international adoption. Plan on the kid needing psychiatric care, attachment therapy, special services in school, and a doctor familiar with the care of internationally adopted children. It’s very likely that a child in foster care has been sexually abused either in the home or in the orphanage he or she has been sent to and will require psychiatric counseling at different stages of his or her life as he reaches new developmental stages. He or she may act out sexually and harm younger children in the family, so alarms could be required on the bedroom doors and constant vigilance practiced while the child is healing. Assume physical or emotional abuse and neglect and parent accordingly. The child may be a member of a mistreated minority group such as the Roma or some other minority, even coming from an Eastern European country, and all of the things you need to do in an interracial adoption would apply.

Research and talking with people who have already adopted kids with these issues is essential, regardless of whether it’s an international or a domestic adoption. Maybe there won’t be problems, but it’s better to be prepared.

Posted 25 Oct 2009 at 3:44 pm ¶
Deesha wrote:

Atlasien,

Thank you for your follow-up comment. As an adoptive parent, I’m always interested in facts and perspectives about the process across the spectrum of adoption.

Best,
~Deesha

Posted 25 Oct 2009 at 4:49 pm ¶
Wendy O wrote:

“I have heard so many stories of international adoptive parents forced to disrupt their adoptions because they were not prepared to handle the special needs of the children.”

NO ONE IS FORCED TO DISRUPT.
Yes, these children are being failed twice–by their AP’s and the social workers who allowed them to pass their homestudy.

Until we, as a nation, stop seeing adoption as about families getting children and other nation’s as inferior to our own, this will not stop. If you adopt saying you are unprepared, then that is on you. The information is there, easily available for those who look–most of the issue is that agencies do not force parents to do so, adoption education as we know it is a joke.

The problem lies with those who adopt to save, think love is enough, think parenting an adopted child is the same as it was/is for their bio children, or who feel that the US is, of course, the better alternative than where the child currently resides.

Posted 25 Oct 2009 at 7:25 pm ¶
Jae Ran wrote:

Good Karma, I want to echo and reinforce what you’ve shared. I was also one of the “only” ones in my school who was not White, it has profoundly affected me in ways, mostly in the sense that there is NO WAY I would send my own children to a school where I would have to sacrifice “good education” with “diverse environment.”

Sending kids to a Brownie troop or outside activities where there is more diversity is great, don’t get me wrong. But if you remember that kids spend most of their lives from K-12 in school – 6-7 hours a day, and taking away the time they sleep, that makes up a sizable portion of a child/youth’s life – it will also be the environment your child spends most of his or her time in until adulthood, and if that child is also transracially adopted or one of the “only” in the family as well as school, please tell me how a few hours a month in a Brownie troop or after school club is going to counter the daily onslaught of the white majority culture. I ask that sincerely since in my personal and professional life, I can not fathom how that would be enough of a buffer.

As for the discussions on adoption, I don’t even know where to begin without writing a dissertation. There have been a lot of myths in the comments here. I know people don’t want to think that adoption is a traumatic thing, but it is. I don’t have the research at my fingertips, but there have been studies that show that babies as early as one day old suffere higher stress (measured through cortisol levels) when removed from their biological mothers, that sometimes last up to the first year. And that is in infants. Most children who are adopted internationally are at a minimum 6 months old and up to teenagers. Those children are more likely to suffer from a host of issues as others have mentioned.

In my professional work, working at post-adoption support agencies, I have had the majority of my crisis calls from parents who have adopted Eastern European children by far – and many of these children were adopted as young children (toddlers through age 5) and these families are in crisis.

I don’t think atlasien was trying to say all children are “damaged” or anything like that – she, and I would cosign completely, would like to dispel the myth that just because one adopts a child that *appears* to have no problems does not mean the child won’t develop them or just does not present at the time of adoption.

In adoption, we know very little about the child’s history – we don’t know their family’s background – and this is especially true for children who have lived in institutional care.

People need to be aware of the whole host of issues that may be present when adopting – IN GENERAL. Adoption is not just this happy-happy-everything-is-fine scenario.

The title of this website is love isn’t enough. This is so especially true in adoption.

Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 10:42 am ¶
Jae Ran wrote:

I just realized now that I might have been unclear when I wrote in my comment above “there is NO WAY I would send my own children to a school where I would have to sacrifice “good education” with “diverse environment.”

What I mean is that I would not favor “good education” over “diversity.”

Think of it the other way around. Rather than believing that a “good curriculum” is better and “supplement” the diversity part, why not put the kid in a diverse school and “supplement” the curriculum?

Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 10:44 am ¶
atlasien wrote:

@WENDY O: You are wrong. Both adoptive AND biological parents have been FORCEED to disrupt/terminate parental rights in order for their children to receive mental health services.

When a family is told “RTC for your child is going to cost $15,000 a month” and all their money has run out, they’re often forced into a choice between spending down and becoming homeless to get onto Medicaid or relinquishing custody to the state.

Many biological families have had to terminate their parental rights in order to get care for their children. Sometimes they don’t terminate, and choose to go without services… and in that case, the child often ends up in a different institution: prison. Our society has shifted much of the cost for caring for mentally ill children into the juvenile justice system.

I don’t disagree with your statement that parents need to be educated. But your absolutism is just totally ignorant and contributes nothing to the solution. Adoptive parents who think they are saviors are just one small piece of the broken system… and abolishing all adoption would barely make a dent in this problem.

Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 11:24 am ¶
atlasien wrote:

@Christina: there is a ton of stuff along those lines on many adoptee blogs I have browsed. But you could start off learning about the concept here:

http://africa-adoption.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/do-infants-grieve

Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 11:41 am ¶
Sharon wrote:

Atlasian, you are right about people relinquishing their kids just so the kids can get desperately needed mental health care. While technically these parents aren’t “forced” to dissolve the adoption, some parents must make this horrible choice in order to obtain needed care. I’m a little out of my water here, but I believe this has happened with some parents seeking care for their bio kids, too.

On the education question: I wonder what the research says about the link b/w school quality and an individual child’s performance. I would suspect that indiviudal and family characteristics have a stronger influence on children’s success than does overall school quality. Just because one school has, e.g., lower average test scores than another doesn’t necessarily mean (and again, I don’t know the research) that a given child will have lower test scores at that school than at another. Also, I suspect that the link b/w school quality and an idividual child’s performance would be weakest for children in socioeconomically advantaged families — families who have the ability to enrich their children’s learning before kindergarten entry, and outside of the school environment.

So, Jae Ran’s suggestion makes sense to me:
“Rather than believing that a “good curriculum” is better and “supplement” the diversity part, why not put the kid in a diverse school and “supplement” the curriculum?”

Presumably “Anonymous” is considering the non-diverse school b/c he/she feels it is of high quality. So, it may be helpful to consider not just the effect of diversity on his/her child, but also the effect of school quality. The effect of diversity *may* be stronger (and thus more important).

(I don’t want to make assumptions about anyone’s personal or family situations, or about their socioeconomic advantage or lack thereof, so I can see different decisions about school choice being right for different people.)

Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 2:12 pm ¶
Sharon wrote:

P.S., I also don’t want to imply that socioeconomically disadvantaged families can’t or don’t enrich their children’s learning outside of school–just that it may tend to be easier for more advantaged families who have access to more resources.

Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 2:15 pm ¶
Christina wrote:

@atlasien: I don’t think you can take a study on grieving and conflate it into all adoptees have attachment disorders.

Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 3:42 pm ¶
Andrea wrote:

I don’t think I’d value a diverse school simply because it’s diverse or trust that all parents are going to be able to adequately supplement the education enough to make up for what might be a fairly poor education. If you have a bright, curious, well-motivated kid and you and your spouse are fairly well-educated, you can probably help him do well even in a school with inexperienced, overworked teachers and overcrowded classrooms. If any of those qualities are missing, I have my doubts that the child will get a good education and I think that is more important than being in a school where other kids look like you. A lot would depend on the relative quality of the two schools, how well-behaved and interested in learning the child’s classmates are at the different schools, and the teacher’s ability to teach and support from the administration. If the two are roughly equal, it’s probably better to put the kid in a more diverse school.

Posted 26 Oct 2009 at 6:38 pm ¶
Jae Ran wrote:

Andrea, I could not disagree with you more.

I had a long comment in response but frankly I’m just feeling too tired to respond to these kinds of comments (and the one you wrote on my post about Chinese adoptees and motherland tours).

You know, adoptive parents (and I’m not sure if you are one, Andrea, so this isn’t necessarily directed towards you personally) always want to know what we adoptees think, what our opinions are, and then I’m amazed how quickly what we say is discounted, just because it makes adoptive parents and other people uncomfortable.

Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 12:04 am ¶
Jae Ran wrote:

I changed my mind, I have one further comment.

I went to one of those “good education” schools. And while my book-learnin’ was good, maybe even better than average (the school district always ranks in the top 5 every year for my state) let me just say again, once more, that it was a MISERABLE place as one of the few people of color. I can not state it enough. I experienced a substantial amount of racism from my fellow classmates and teachers.

My kids attend schools in which they, as kids of color, are not the only ones. In a school district that has, as you’ve stated, overworked and inexperienced teachers and overcrowded classrooms. Schools in a district that has trouble meeting national standards. And guess what? They’re doing just fine.

I don’t think one has to be “well-educated” to help their children do good in school. Some of my kids classmates have parents who never got past our equivalent of the 5th grade in their countries of origin. They still care, that’s the point, and they make a point to value education. My kids are in 6th and 10th grades, up until five years ago all I had was a high school degree.

Sometimes I think these conversations about “good schools” versus “diversity” to be heavily coded arguments that just disguise some racial prejudices.

Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 12:14 am ¶
Kristen wrote:

@Anonymous – I don’t think it’s racist to specify your own race in adoption, if it is due to concern over being able to provide adequate cultural experiences for a child of another race. If you specified your own race out of fear/bias against children of another race, then that might be racist. But I don’t think that’s where you are coming from. Sounds like it’s more a matter of cultural sensitivity and acknowledgement of the importance of that. Which is not racist at all.

@Jana – the neglect that has occurred in many eastern european orphanages is fairly well reported. I don’t think Atlasien is trying to indicte all Eatern Europeans or demonize those children. She’s just stating something that has been documented about the level of care in institutions, and subsequent attachment issues for kids. It’s not racist to point that out, any more than it’s racist to mention the issues prevalent in foster homes here in the US.

@Christina wrote: “@atlasien: “In fact, I’ve heard the claim that ALL adoptions are special needs, and even a healthy infant adopted the day they were born is still going to have attachment issues.” Really? Where did you hear this claim? I’ve never heard it, and I did extensive research before becoming a parent through adoption.”
Christina, there are a few different adoption attachment theorists that teach from the assumption that adoption is trauma. Heather Forbes is one I’ve heard talk extensively on this. I’m not sure I totally argee . . . I tend to think that in the first few months before an infant has object permenance, that attachment is transferable. But I think that is a very small window. My son came to us at age 6 months, and we definitely had some attachment stuff. Nothing like RAD, but we had to be much more intentioal with bonding and eye contact.

Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 4:16 am ¶
Montclair Mommy wrote:

@ Jae Ran, you said: “Sometimes I think these conversations about “good schools” versus “diversity” to be heavily coded arguments that just disguise some racial prejudices.” I 100% totally agree. It makes me really uncomfortable when someone starts talking about “good” schools versus “bad” schools…especially when their only evidence is the color of the student body. I was recently hanging out with a bunch of other moms and a few of them were talking about how much they value the “diversity” in their area. It occurred to me that diversity is a fun little perk to them–but I see it as NECESSARY to my son’s sense of self. Its a whole other ball game once the child that makes up this “diversity” is your own. I don’t want him to be the only one. Its not fair to him and, frankly, I think it has the potential to contribute to poor achievement

Not to say that one story proves anything, because it doesn’t, BUT I just want to bolster Jae Ran’s statements about her feelings as a POC in a overwhelmingly white environment. My husband also went to a “good” private school. Kids used to say to him (and I am NOT kidding here) “Why is your nose so wide?” “What is wrong with your sister’s hair?” “Your skin looks dirty.” IN FRONT OF the teachers. One of them actually said, “That’s a good question! Can you tell us, [my husband's name]?” They made comments about slavery in class (”Why are Black people so upset about this?”) and he, as the only Black student in his grade, felt so stupid, shamed, and alone. Luckily, he went home to a family of successful people that showed him that you certainly can be Black and beautiful and smart. Otherwise, he really might not have known. His parents had the absolute best intentions, but they have said that if they were to do it again they would do it differently.

I cannot put myself in my son’s shoes. I will never, ever totally understand what it feels like to be a biracial boy. But that’s all the more reason for me to be extra conscious of racial issues. I won’t ever know what it feels like to be the only POC in a school filled with white people and, honestly, I don’t ever want my son to know what that feels like either.

Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 4:06 pm ¶
Andrea wrote:

Jae Ran, I’m sorry that what I said ticked you off, but my opinion isn’t different here. First of all, I don’t have kids and I’m a newspaper reporter who covers education, so my opinion probably doesn’t have the weight of someone who does. I’ve written on occasion about adoption and parenting and care about the issues from a professional standpoint and as the aunt of two nephews. So take it with a grain of salt.

All things being equal, it’s better for a kid not to be the only Asian or the only black in a classroom. Even if we’re talking about one school that has better test scores, more technology and a slightly better class size ratio than the other school, maybe it’s better for the kid to go to the more diverse school, provided it’s doing a “good enough” job. ‘

But if we’re talking about a school where the kids are poorly behaved, where there’s a first year teacher who is not up to managing the class or one or more kids in it with special needs, where the administration is not supportive, where the class sizes are large, where the technology isn’t what is available elsewhere, I’d be in favor of putting the kid in a different type of school with fewer negatives if one is available. It’s hard for a kid to learn in that kind of environment. Hopefully, few schools have quite that many negatives. I’d also hope that parents also weigh in how happy the child is at each of the possible schools.

Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 7:18 pm ¶
Andrea wrote:

I’d also add that if you send a kid to an all white school I’d hope that the parents would try to find other social groups where the child could make friends with other kids who look like him. Especially in the place where I live, I don’t think it’s always feasible for parents who’ve adopted kids from India or China or black kids to put them in a diverse school. They usually ARE going to be the only kid in the school or at least the only one in the class who looks like them. The adoptees I’ve met in that situation usually seem well adjusted and have quite a few friends, but I have no real way of knowing what they feel like inside or will think in a few years.

Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 7:25 pm ¶
Katie wrote:

Damn. my computer just ate my long-ass reply.

Quick question though- Is the name change completely, 100%, unopen for dicussion, final?

Posted 27 Oct 2009 at 11:33 pm ¶
curlyscales wrote:

@ Andrea,

Take it with a grain of salt?

Wow.

Posted 28 Oct 2009 at 9:13 am ¶
irshlas wrote:

Isn’t being able to choose what school one sends their child to a luxury in and of itself? There isn’t much of a choice in our community. The few private schools in the area are Christian academies – K-12. ( They choose who to admit = no POC). The public school system? Children are assigned to one of three elementary schools; there a middle school and a HS. That’s it. Perhaps in larger cities or communities outside of the south this kind of choice is possible. In one of the poorest states in the country, it just doesn’t seem possible.

Posted 28 Oct 2009 at 9:58 am ¶
Montclair Mommy wrote:

@irshlas: that is true. It is a privilege even to have the options available, let alone having the money to utilize the options. Any child whose parents have that choice is in a better position than a child whose parents have no options (either due to geographical location or finances).

I feel pretty lucky–I live in one of the most welcoming communities for multiracial families in the nation (its has topped the list before). My husband and I have never been the only interracial couple at a store, dining at a restaurant, at church, or in a playgroup. Its really a breath of fresh air, considering we started dating when we lived in Virginia. But where we live is no accident. We are privileged to have a little bit of choice as to where we reside so we exercised that choice to make sure that we were living in a place that values our kind of family. To us, no matter how much cheaper it might be to live in the South, it is not an option. Been there, done that (my husband also went to school in S.C.–not a great experience), don’t want to put a child through it. I understand, though, some families do NOT have that choice either for personal, financial, or geographical reasons.

Posted 28 Oct 2009 at 12:48 pm ¶
Christina wrote:

Does anyone know anything about Heather Forbes beyond her seemingly relentless self-promotion? “Primal Wound” and much of this adoptees are all going to have RAD seems to have come along after my children were placed with me (at birth). I think it is fair to say that many adoptees, even those fortunate enough to know their birth parents, are going to have questions and issues. That is part of the package when you become a parent through adoption. However, I don’t think it is beneficial to make a blanket statement that they are all basically “special needs” children. It minimizes the issues facing special needs children and it penalizes adoptees for being adopted. Frankly, it sounds suspiciously like the old “bad seed” and “you don’t know what you get when you adopt” language I heard growing up.

Posted 28 Oct 2009 at 3:23 pm ¶
Emma wrote:

As the white adoptive parent of a black boy, I am far more concerned with the negative stereotypes of how black boys perform in school than I am with the impact of going to an alternative school that welcomes all learning styles and is predominantly white. Which is not to say I’m not concerned with the latter – it concerns me a lot. But as an educator and a parent, and with my son being the type to be in constant motion and only interested in learning new things on his own time-table, I can’t rightly send him to a traditional school.

I plan to send him to mostly-black after-school programs, at which he’ll probably spend as much time as he does at school (we’ll partially home-school, partially alternative-school, if all goes according to plan – hah).

To the person wondering about adopting a child of same/different race:
I don’t know if I’d call it “racism” but it may well come from fear and from lack of contact/familiarity. It took me about 6 months to become comfortable with adopting a black child, after starting my adoption research. Growing up in NYC I was exposed to both intense diversity and intense divisions among races. As I said to my friend while I was struggling with this, “I don’t want to have to bridge that gap, along with everything else involved in parenting.”

I actually think that learning to deal with parenting transracially has helped me to be a better parent. I’m not perfect, of course, but I think I’m doing OK by my son and I plan to keep that up. It will be hard for a variety of reasons, including our racial difference. It’s not like it would be easy if we were teh same color.

Posted 29 Oct 2009 at 4:32 pm ¶
Ashley wrote:

I’ve had to struggle with which is more important for our bi-racial (black & white) children – the best education in a very white school & community, or a moderate education in a very mixed community.

I go back & forth, but right now, I think I’d prefer to keep the kids in a mixed environment and supplement their academics if I see the need. By being in an environment where they’re free to be themselves (save the issues everyone has to deal with growing up), they just might do more with their middle-of-the-road education, than they would in a top-notch school where they are stigmatized & possibly ostracized for not being like everyone else.

I don’t know that this would be their experience in the all-white school area, but I hear enough from others (and saw it myself through friends & family) that it as too risky.

Posted 29 Oct 2009 at 6:52 pm ¶
OtherKatie wrote:

As an Asian kid who went to a school with almost no other Asians, I would definitely say PLEASE – for your kid’s sake – put them in an environment where there will be other kids who look like them.

An environment where your kid is not the “only” can make a HUGE difference in treatment. I was routinely subjected to racist slurs and harassment, and I do not have any illusions that the situation is any different today.

Even if the administration is not supportive, your child will still have the power of numbers.

Posted 04 Nov 2009 at 4:03 pm ¶

Open thread

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