Open thread

20 Responses to Open thread

1. Logos says:

   November 5, 2009 at 8:45 am

   How does everyone feel about the Sarah Kruzan case?
2. dersk says:

   November 5, 2009 at 10:40 am

   Here’s a question for you guys, somewhat off topic. So, my daughter (Scottish mom, American dad, never lived in the US) is coming up on six years old, and I thought it’s probably time to start teaching her about being American.

   Sort of the reverse of the problem folks on this board normally have, but does anyone have good suggestions for books or movies that would be age appropriate and not too jingoistic? She’s half Scottish, so it’s fine if the English are the bad guys. (:

   I asked her the other day if she knew who George Washington was, and she said sure! He’s in that song “Violin” by They Might Be Giants. I have the coolest daughter on the planet.
3. Montclair Mommy says:

   November 5, 2009 at 3:46 pm

   Hmmm…@ dersk…thinking about ways to teach her about being American…eating lots of cheeseburgers and watching TV? No seriously, though. Does she really need to know? Will she ever live there? I just got a book I Am America. Its pretty childish but it gets the point across (diversity of religion, ethnicity, foods, etc.). No real nationalistic spirit, which is fine. When I was a kid I lived in Germany from kindergarten until third grade and when I came back to the States I knew NOTHING about all of the cultural references here. I still fall a little short of the New Kids on the Block references and whatnot. Missed all that. But, honestly, what did I really miss? Not much.

   On my thoughts today, though, is the repeal of gay marriage in Maine. It really makes me sad that most of America has actually gone the distance to THWART equality, rather than the other way around. I just don’t understand why other straight people would want to fight a battle against allowing LBGT couples the rights that they have. Honestly, how does it bother us? I don’t see wasting the energy on keeping others from having the freedom to marry, I really don’t. And I find it a painful reminder of how our country is so divided into Us vs. Them. Its not enough just to have what we want, apparently some people have to fight so that other people CAN’T have what they want. It makes me shake my head.
4. JustMe says:

   November 5, 2009 at 4:45 pm

   @dersk – There’s always the American Girl books. They aren’t perfect, but nothing ever is, and I loved those books as a kid.
5. Adrienne says:

   November 5, 2009 at 5:28 pm

   Dersk,

   Some ideas…teach her about the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Preamble. Teach her “We hold all truths to be self evident that all men are created equal”. Teach her about Sojourner Truth, Frederick Douglass, the children who marched for civil rights in the South, Malcolm X, Ida B Wells, Alice Walker, Maya Angelou, Langston Hughes, Jesse Owens, Wilma Rudolph, the Pullman Porters, Harriett Tubman, the Harlem Renaissance, when Black men finally were able to coach a NFL team, or be referees of the game, or be the Quarterback. Teach her about Cathy Hughes, Billie Holiday, Nina Simone, Ella Fitzgerald, Dorothy Dandridge, Lena Horne (and the real story not just how beautiful she was but her painful struggles). Teach about the Talented Tenth, teach why Malcolm X and Dr Martin Luther King had different philosophies and what they have in common and when they met each other. Teach her about her family roots and the family history behind those American roots. Teach her about Dr Charles Drew, Dr Benjamin Carson, the Delany sisters, Ruby Dee and Ossie Davis. Teach her about the many Americans who make up American history and American present. And yes, teach her about George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson and the folklores and the real history behind each figure and the degree to which folklores and history can split from each other.

   For me, being an American has everything to do with the American history that brought me to myself today.
6. Ashley says:

   November 5, 2009 at 6:53 pm

   I’m pissed that I predicted I’d see comments about Islam when reading an article just now on the Ft. Hood shootings . . . and I was right. Very first comment.

   *sigh*

   I’m not surprised. Just tired of it.
7. Montclair Mommy says:

   November 5, 2009 at 10:37 pm

   @ Ashley: [sympathetic nod coming your way] Its b.s.. People are so ignorant.
8. dersk says:

   November 6, 2009 at 6:13 am

   @Montclair – well, I’ve gotten to the point where I’m perversely proud of never having heard any of the songs in the top 40. I sincerely hope Catriona never learns of the horror that is N Sync (unfortunately, her mom has several Steps CDs).

   @Adrienne – good call. That’s really what I’m looking for – something like a People’s History of the US for children. I doubt she’ll ever live in the States, but I do want her to know about the ideas behind the States (which, though we never achieve them, are actually pretty noble) – especially since Switzerland isn’t exactly a progressive country. They didn’t have women’s suffrage until the 70s, and supposedly some cantons waited until 1986!
9. Torey says:

   November 6, 2009 at 1:22 pm

   @dersk: What you’re looking for exists. Howard Zinn’s “A Young People’s History of the United States.” Check it out!
10. OtherKatie says:

    November 6, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    I had a great therapy session today where I talked about some of the reasons I come to this site, though I’m not a parent and doubt I ever will be one.

    I am a biracial Korean kid who was raised in an almost all-white town by parents who had no race consciousness. This meant that with all the racist abuse that I faced, with everything that taught me every day that I was different, lesser, and freakish, I had no words to describe my treatment, or to understand why it might be happening. My mother told me to ignore it, and my father told me to fight back. Neither of these responses were helpful then, and neither has proven to be helpful as an adult either.

    I come to this site for hope – to see parents of all races creating a world where all children will have positive racial identities, and know that they are more than the names they get called at school. I am so grateful to all the parents that listen, that support and arm their children with education and love and understanding. I am in awe of the parents that go to battle for their kids. Everyone here gives me hope – this site gives me hope. I just wanted to send out a general thank you for the work that you’re doing, and the healing you’ve given me.
11. SuperAmanda says:

    November 6, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    Ashley: It is very sad. Living in the UK, Muslims are your friends next door so I just try to preach tolerance. The shooter is an atrocious human being but that has nothing to do with being Muslim, it has to do with narcissism.

    dersk:
    http://us.dk.com/nf/Browse/BrowseStdPage/0,,233458,00.html

    Here is one I like. I also like individual books about famous people like Paul Robeson to go along with the surveys.
12. PureGracefulTree says:

    November 8, 2009 at 7:01 pm

    I’m working with the religious education committee at my church and we have a dilemma. The 7th-8th grade class is doing a racial justice curriculum, and from everything I know about the teacher and the materials, it’s a good program. However, there is one African-American girl, adopted by white parents, who has told her mother she doesn’t want to come anymore. She is the only person of color in the group.

    The teacher (a white woman) understands and is sensitive to why this girl is uncomfortable, but isn’t sure how to handle the situation and I’m not sure how to advise her. I think it’s important for the kids to be doing this curriculum—it is very much in line with the church’s mission—but I also know how TREMENDOUSLY difficult it is to be the only PoC in a room when race is discussed…and I’m in my mid-30s.

    Is there any way we can make this a safe place for her? And if not, what are our options for helping her feel valued? We certainly are okay with her just not participating in this session, but it also smacks of “serving the white people” at the expense of people of color, which happens all too often. Would it make sense to offer her the opportunity to discuss race issues with an adult PoC while the white kids are together?

    Any advice is much appreciated. I feel especially lost because I’m just not familiar with this age range, when children are coming into their identities and begin to self-segregate by race. Thanks.
13. Christina says:

    November 8, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    @SuperAmanda: I don’t know that it was narcissism. It may well have been despair. He was about to be deployed again. I have several friends who served multiple tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, and none of them seems angry about this incident so much as resigned and a little surprised it hadn’t happened sooner. Our troops are stretched and stressed. What happened wasn’t right, but it’s not incomprehensible.
14. dersk says:

    November 9, 2009 at 5:41 am

    @Amanda, unfortunately it’s looking more and more like his going crazy had a lot to do with being Muslim. Obviously too early to make any real judgements, but it looks to have been involved both with abuse he received and in providing a framework for going nuts.
15. Andrea says:

    November 9, 2009 at 9:19 am

    I think there’s a certain type of personality that might be vulnerable to becoming fanatical about whatever religion they’ve been brought up in and lashing out violently under the right circumstances. This guy sounds like he was mentally unstable to begin with and had some major stressers in his life and had built a lot of his self worth and belief system on being a strict Muslim. There is a certain strain of Islam that DOES encourage violence and martyrdom and is strongly anti-American and anti-west. If he were Christian, he very well might be the Tim McVeigh type; if here were raised Mormon, maybe he’d be one of those fanatical FLDS; if he were Jewish maybe he’d be the sort of religious Jew who assassinated the prime minister a few years back. Right now radical Islam is the brand of fanatacism that is causing us the most problems.

    I think profiling of this type of person is wise, not discrimination. Someone should have been alerted to his problems with a thorough background check.
16. dersk says:

    November 9, 2009 at 10:03 am

    @Pure – not to be snarky, but that’s the age (actually, it was younger for me) that I decided I didn’t believe in all that God stuff and didn’t particularly care to go to church any more. So it could be that she’s seen the light (sorry, that was a bit of snark).

    Assuming that it’s because she’d feel uncomfortable about it for whatever reason, probably the idea of having her talk to some other non-white, preferably someone who was adopted by white, seems like it might be the best alternative. But it’s probably worth checking with the kid to make sure people do understand why she doesn’t want to attend, rather than assuming.
17. PureGracefulTree says:

    November 9, 2009 at 11:59 am

    @ dersk: FWIW, I am a lifelong atheist and belong to a Unitarian Universalist church because I believe in the principles that each individual has inherent worth and dignity and that we are all interconnected. It is very much in line with my anti-racist philosophy. I see no reason to put down others for having personal theologies that differ from mine—”all that God stuff” can translate into good and bad ways of interacting with the world, and I judge people by how they live, not my assumptions about their beliefs.

    That all being said, I do appreciate your emphasis on checking with the child herself, as it is indeed easy to assume and assume wrongly—as we have just seen. Thank you for the reminder.
18. Jae Ran says:

    November 9, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    @OtherKatie, thanks for your comment. It reminded me that I can never take for granted who is reading and why.
19. Kristen says:

    November 10, 2009 at 4:35 am

    I just want to point out that people having true psychotic breaks frequently become obsessive about religion and/or have religious delusions . . . not just Muslims.
20. lubeivngmmee says:

    January 22, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    I can’t think of a more appropriate time and place to begin a good piece of science literature… snow on the ground… my faithful dog at my feet, bathed in the warmth of the yule time log in the fireplace.

    I am looking forward to visiting this forum regularly.