Love Isn’t Enough columnist Jason Sperber sent me a link to this article: “Talking About Race and Role Models.” I’m wondering what you all think of it. In the post from Almighty Dad, the writer asserts that it is “racist” to root for someone, for instance a sports figure, merely based on their race:
Jesse Owens came along at a time when segregation in the United States was as strong as ever, and he accomplished his gold medal performances in front of a stadium full of state sponsored racists. That is truly a case of defying odds that deserves recognition. These days though no such barriers exist. The black kids who are now motivated to be speed skaters because of Shani Davis have no legitimate reason to be any more impressed with him than Apollo Ohno, both of whom deserve all the attention they get. When there are political barriers or social barriers or personal barriers like illness then that is what really should drive us to be inspired. Race can play a part, but only in so much as we identify with that person because of something more than ethnicity. Read more…
What concerns me is that this post seems to be written with little insight into the experiences of people of color. It is all well and good that the writer, who appears from his profile photo to be a white male, thinks that racial barriers no longer exist. Many people of color would disagree based on their lived experiences. Not only does prejudice exist among all racial groups, but institutional racism still exists against minority groups. Studies have shown, for instance, that resumes submitted by people with “black sounding” names receive far fewer call backs from employers. Black women still make less on the dollar than white men and women. All people of color are still underrepresented in the media, particularly when it comes to positive representation. When our children learn about American history, the contributions of people of color are routinely excluded unless slavery or the genocide of Native Americans is being discussed. I wrote about this in an earlier post:
In the spring, my nephew’s class at his predominantly white school studied the people, places and cultures of Europe and the Americas. And he says that he noticed this study included very little about the contributions of people of African descent. In the history of America, his ancestors were slaves and, it seems, nothing else. I am proud that my nephew had the presence of mind to recognize this inequity and ask his teacher whether some information about black Americans and the role of Africa in the building of the United States might be forthcoming. I am enraged, however, to know the answer he received from his teacher. The class wouldn’t be covering information about black and African peoples, because “The school system doesn’t want any trouble.”
WTF?
This classroom exploration and celebration of the rich history of Europe and the brave European men who “discovered, “conquered and colonized America (to the exclusion of any acknowlegdment of the history and contributions of anyone else–particularly people of color) left my nephew feeling rootless and unsure of his place in his own country. After all, to discuss his people is merely to invite “trouble.” Read more…
Given this experience, would it be any wonder that my nephew would feel special pride in hearing the story of, say, Daniel Hale Williams or Crispus Attucks or other African American historical figures. Is it any wonder than a little black girl who grew up being the only brown face in tennis club would take special joy in the Williams’ sisters? Wouldn’t a black fashionista who rarely sees models who look like her in women’s magazines treasure that Italian Vogue filled with black models?
When the story of African Americans is told by the mainstream, the message is often one of dysfunction or despair. The same can be said for Latino and Native cultures. Look at CNN’s recent attempts to chronicle what it means to be black and Latino in America. Given that, can one really say it is racist for people of color to take special pride in those who share our culture. It is not that we don’t think success is possible. We know that it is. But we also recognize the barriers that people like us face to success and recognition.
What do you think?
I personally celebrate all of the achievements of the people of the African Diaspora and I teach my children to do the same, for the simple fact that world is content to construct is in the most negative light. The man that wrote that post is of the tribe that racism is over and only his White male privilege allows him to believe such utter nonsense. The very fact that there were so few Blacks in the winter Olympics is proof of systemic racism. Most winter sports are incredibly expensive and because Blacks earn less than Whites they are less able to introduce their children to these activities. In fact the more a sport costs to play the less likely that you will ANY POC on a professional level. Tennis and Golf speak to that fact.
It is difficult to comprehend privilege when you have never lacked it. I am currently teaching a course on media and diversity at a large southeastern university. I find the students that resist the idea of media biases based on race, gender, and class are overwhelmingly white, male, and upper middle classed. They simply can’t see the problem because it has never been a problem for them. The more we celebrate diversity, the greater the chance for change.
Well, this gets back to the question of how you define racism. He’s using a very broad definition: “when we prefer (a person of) one race over another for no other reason than race”. By that definition, I guess he’s correct. Although it’s probably too broad a definition to be useful.
“little insight into the experiences of people of color” Seriously? My wife is Mexican and didn’t even speak english before we moved to the United States. My Boys are 1/3 native American. Seriously? No insight? How about this. I lived in Mexico for a long time. Racism against whites is rampant there. Don’t tell me I have no insight.
You assume you know my life experience by looking at my skin color. My sister (yes, sister) is black — that means my mom married a black guy. Don’t presume to know me based on my skin color. That’s racist.
If there are no barriers to becoming winter Olympic athletes for people of color, why are there so few of them? There’s certainly something going on…
It also seems silly to suggest that you shouldn’t be inspired by an Olympic athlete simply because they share your ethnicity – isn’t that kind of what the Olympics are about, taking pride in the athletic accomplishments of your country?
Keith,
I make no assumptions about whether you have people of color in your life. You will find that many white readers here have loved ones who are people of color. Those relationships, while they certainly should offer insight into experiences of POC, do not make them POC. That would be like saying my brother knows what it is like to be a woman because he has sisters and a mother.
It is not racist to acknowledge that whites in America have racial privilege, just as it is not classist to acknowledge that the wealthy have class privilege. That is our social fabric.
Have you read “Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack” by Peggy McIntosh? It is a classic work on understanding racial privilege.
http://www.case.edu/president/aaction/UnpackingTheKnapsack.pdf
Does reading that essay change any of the feelings you expressed in your post?
@Tami – well, the article and the comments DID make a lot of assumptions about Keith’s experiences and opinions, based primarily on his perceived race. Can you show me anywhere in his post where he thinks that “racial barriers no longer exist” in any area other than sport?
I really don’t see any way in which white privilege has anything to do with his post. And I’d be fairly annoyed as well; I often get frustrated on anti-racist boards by the assumptions people make about my experiences and attitudes as well. It feels to me as if there’s some assumption that empathy doesn’t exist, or maybe just isn’t available to us white folks.
Dersk,
From Keith’s post:
“Jesse Owens came along at a time when segregation in the United States was as strong as ever, and he accomplished his gold medal performances in front of a stadium full of state sponsored racists. That is truly a case of defying odds that deserves recognition. These days though no such barriers exist. The black kids who are now motivated to be speed skaters because of Shani Davis have no legitimate reason to be any more impressed with him than Apollo Ohno, both of whom deserve all the attention they get.”
This is where Keith said that racial barriers do not exist and that there is no reason black children might be more impressed with Davis than Ohno. That statement very much illustrates white privilege. It is that statement that I am reacting to.
@Keith the very fact that you felt the need to pull out your Black Step father, and sister as well as your Mexican wife is illustrative of why you don’t see all of the privilege in your piece. Do you have a Black best friend you would like to pull out as well, cause I am dying to scream bingo. It does not matter that your loved ones are of color because you will always see the world through the lens of White male privielge because that is YOUR experience.
BTW, there are plenty of Mexicans who could tell you about the ways that Whiteness is privileged there but that would mean looking beyond YOUR lived experience.
I hate sports, but I seem to recall an article on here or on Racialicious that speaks to the racialized ways in which we view athletes. White folks tend to LOVE Brett Farve, for example. Why? Hmmm…maybe because they can identify with him? Isn’t that why we emulate anyone? Because we want to be like them and when we see that they also share something basic with us (ie: skin color, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation) that makes us identify even more strongly with them. Just as, on a macro level, Apolo Ono and Shani Davis appeal to us as Americans, on a micro and personal level Shani Davis might appeal to a young black child who aspires to be a skater. I don’t see why that’s difficult to understand. It must be a priviliged thing.
It is pretty natural on a biological level and also, in a society stratified by appearance (racially and otherwise), to identify with people who look like yourself. Racism is oppression of a person or group of people based on race/perceived race. Remind me again: who is being oppressed when you root for Shani?
@dersk:
Three things.
First, on this:
“the article and the comments DID make a lot of assumptions about Keith’s experiences and opinions, based primarily on his perceived race. ” Please point out these assumptions, because I do not see them. The only assumption I see Tami making in this article is that Keith is white–an assumption she makes based on his profile photo and acknowledges as much.
Second, on this:
“Can you show me anywhere in his post where he thinks that “racial barriers no longer exist” in any area other than sport?” Tami has provided the answer above to the first half of your question. The second–to your qualifier “in any area other than sport”–is in Keith’s article: “I’m using athletics in all my examples here because that’s where the most visible cases of broken stereotypes are, regrettably.” It appears that he is using sports to make a larger point. If that’s not the case, I imagine he’ll tell us here.
Finally, regarding this–”I often get frustrated on anti-racist boards by the assumptions people make about my experiences and attitudes as well”–I really encourage you to do some self-examination. I’d like to gently urge you to consider that this phenomenon you’re experiencing isn’t about some flaw in the anti-racist boards, but rather represents som consistent feedback about something you are doing (probably unconsciously and without intent to harm). It’s not about having or not having empathy. It’s about believing you know about and can speak authoritatively about an experience that you’ve never had–i.e, the experience of being a person of color.
@Keith,
I appreciate that you were willing to write something about race, even though you knew it would be a difficult topic. And I also appreciate where you were trying to go in the end about talking to children about race. For sure in the world we need more people talking about race and thinking about how we raise children to think about race.
That said, I think the criticisms expressed above are valid. I hope you can get to a place where you can hear them. No one here is out to get YOU. We are concerned about ways of talking about race and thinking about race that, however well-intended, reinforce white supremacy and do harm to people of color.
You might find an earlier post I wrote helpful: http://loveisntenough.com/2009/12/30/how-to-be-an-anti-racist-ally/
What is it about suggesting to white people that maybe, just maybe, they really don’t understand what it means to be of colour that sends them into fits of defensive rage?
I see it time and again, in conversation after conversation after conversation, and now AlmightyDad is here to perpetuate the same shit. It isn’t an insult. It’s a fact. You and I? We don’t have the same experiences. That those experiences were shaped by the respective shades of our skin means that you do not understand what it means to be a person of colour, just as I do not understand what it means to be white, although given the degree to which I am immersed in white culture I guarantee you that I probably know more about whiteness than you do about colour.
I don’t know. A lot of it feels like privilege/entitlement to me – the sense that they are so used to being the masters of their universe (which is of course everyone else’s universe, because that’s part of privilege) that suggesting that they cannot comprehend some portion of it, that some of it is off-limits to them, is a Huge Friggin’ Deal because what right do I, a woman of colour, have to tell this White Man that he cannot embody that, cannot grok it, and will never have that kind of access? Is it just that they can’t stand the perceived insult to their intelligence?
I don’t even know where to go from here. I feel like I can’t talk about what was written in the post without addressing the issues that Keith has brought into this thread, and I don’t have the spoons to do it.
[Editor's note: Just a reminder, folks, to avoid generalities, per our comment guidelines. Using the word "some" can make a huge difference.]
Keith, I feel like you need to listen to someone else’s experience here. Because you feel upset that Tami has (in your mind) misrepresented your experience, I’m sure you can appreciate how your blog post must feel to someone who feel his or her experience has been misrepresented. However close you and I may be to people of color, you and I are white. We can’t make a statement about what people of color OUGHT to do and that includes our kids or our spouses or our family members. My black daughter was definitely looking for role models while watching the Olympics and she was definitely looking for role models who she felt represented her SELF, which meant she WAS more excited about Shani Davis than she was for Apollo Ohno (she was excited for both but when Shani won she said, and I quote, “Go black people! Yeah!”). I felt the same way when I heard Kathryn Bigelow won two Oscars and I’d be pretty pissed if any man told me that I needed get over it because to his mind, sexism was no longer an issue.
Keith says in his post “White people have a hard time talking about race.”
I actually think that white people have a pretty EASY time talking about race, particularly those who (and there are plenty of them) define the conversation in their own white terms.
Keith himself says “We’re scared that saying anything will get us labeled as racist, and it frequently does.” It did this time because Keith demonstrated a common white tendency to define racism in white terms and then go on the defensive when others disagree with the definition.
Better, I think, for to listen humbly to people of color, who have experienced racism first-hand, to acknowledge through their experiences that racism continues to exist in our country, and to work to stop it.
I’m actually traveling right now and exhausted and there have already been so many folks in the above comments who have said, more eloquently than I could, what I find frustrating about both Dersk and Keith’s comments–we are not living in a post-racial America. This is not about getting a pat on the back for being a white person who has people of color in their intimate lives or about presuming what we do or don’t know about one another in the blogosphere.
It is about Tami pointing out that there are complex reasons for rooting for someone who resembles you–whose life profile seems similar to your life profile. And about the inequities and systematic and institutional and CULTURAL forms of discrimination that still exist that means that it is quite powerful to see non-white role models–and esp. if one is black to see a black role model or if one is Asian American to see an Asian American role model.
And if we’re talking about irrationalities, why do we root for folks based on nationality if we’re increasingly becoming a global community with roots around the world? Is it any more or less rational to root for the U.S. team than for the Canadian team (the host country) or for the athletes who are at the top of their game who demonstrate the most artistry/athleticism? I mean who didn’t want Yuna Kim to win–she was AMAZING and I’m not Korean or Korean American but I was happy that she won.
“White people have a hard time talking about race.” – I’m not sure anymore who said this but it was mentioned in #16 Margie’s post, that’s all I’m replying to
Is racism taboo to talk about BECAUSE it’s an unnavigated field by the racial majority in power (people who are white)? It’s a region in which they must give up power, a very difficult region for them to therefore, navigate, with power.
I’m going to encourage everyone with this feeling who wants to expand their horizons to work even harder. Meanwhile, I wait with bated breath and sigh in disappointment when you (you know who you are) whip out your mothers, brothers, and friends… please realize how offending it is when it’s done and just don’t. This cynicism doesn’t come from nowhere.
May I be totally honest without being shot into bits and pieces? While I do acknowledge that classism, racism, and genderism still exist, I feel strongly that we must let this all go at some point and struggle to move beyond it as excuses, reasons, points of discussion, etc. Yes, we have been deplorable as a species to each other, but don’t we want to create a new reality? When does that start? My “wrong” race, lack of privelage, or lower economic status doesn’t effect my empathy for others.
JMO
I just taught my class (mainly first and second year college students) the McIntosh article and I have to say that my White male students are usually the most resistant to her writing. However, this semester that resistance took a more intersectional form as the White males in my class were able to discuss how class affects them and alters their privileges in certain ways while also recognizing some privileges they do have in general. (It’s great that I have learned to introduce intersectionality in the first week of class because it sticks!)
This gives me hope that no matter what parents may think they are teaching their racially White children or what racially White children are observing, that when given the opportunity to discuss these topics and tools/language/respect to voice their opinions they are willing to unlearn and recognize the harm and discrimination they have benefited from and participate in. We had great conversations about “strategic use of privileges” and how at times there may be positive and negative outcomes and consequences.
As someone of Color raised by parents who racially identify as White, I don’t think my parents, to this day, realize they raised a woman of Color. And if they did I hope they don’t see that as making them automatically anti-racist because I think and believe in the things I do because of the racism and value of Whiteness environment I was raised in. At the same time attempts to argue that we should “move on” to other conversations is a slap in the face and a new form of colonization, in my opinion, as someone whose homeland is STILL under colonial rule. How do people even envision decolonization efforts that are built upon marginalization, oppression, and difference if we argue to ignore those differences? That strikes me as a great way to (continue) to ignore us all.
Beth,
Not here to shoot you to pieces.
I do think, though, that you are missing the point.
People of color on this thread are saying very clearly that they experience racism and oppression. In saying that you want everyone to move on, you are saying that their experience isn’t real. Think about how painful it must be to hear that. Use your capacity for empathy–note, I am NOT being catty here–to imagine how it would feel to hear that your experiences aren’t real, don’t count, should be ignored.
It is not about being the “wrong” race. It is about recognizing the power and privilege you hold and trying to do something constructive about that. Please read more about being an ally for more about what I mean: http://loveisntenough.com/2009/12/30/how-to-be-an-anti-racist-ally/
If there’s ever going to be a “new reality,” we need to start by being honest about the reality we currently occupy.
Beth said,
“May I be totally honest without being shot into bits and pieces?”
to which I say, please go here and read:
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/23/q-since-when-is-being-criticized-like-having-your-limbs-blown-off-by-a-landmine-a-since-that-criticism-came-from-someone-with-less-privilege-than-you/
just to sum up, criticism – privilege =/= violence, m’kay? m’kay.
I do appreciate the history and cultural opression of racism toward ANY race or culture. I do understand the effects of that, of any land’s colonization, and the deep wounds it leaves on those that have been opressed. I must say too that you don’t know my background, my family, my ancestry, or me, so you may not tell me that my “privelage” makes me not understand. All I’m saying, on a broad scope, is that when we look only backward we limit ourselves and our society. If those that are opressing/discriminating/marginalizing/… cannot and do not lead, then we who have a vision of a future that does not allow that behaviour must lead.
I know that this is a painful subject and a very explosive one, and I do not intend to insult anyone. I do think, though, that you do not have to be African American to appreciate what happened and is happening. While my skin is not dark brown, my family is and that allows me to live the some of the same exerience they do. I hope that my children will continue to lead their peers.
Yep, my bad – missed his bit about racism not being as much a barrier in sports.
Of *course* we don’t live in a post-racial country (or world, for those of us who don’t live in the States). If you define racism as bigotry and opinions vs. the exercise of power, I would assert that we’ll never live in a post racial world; stereotyping is too wired into the human brain.
At the same time, I reject the assertion that race is an insurmountable barrier to empathy in either direction. It is a barrier, of course, but it’s no more insurmountable than language, nationality, gender, sexuality, class, wealth or religion.
@dersk,
I doubt anyone here disagrees with you about empathy. But empathy does not give you authority to speak about another person’s experience as if you know all there is to know about it. THAT is what is problematic about Keith’s piece (although there is ALSO lack of empathy there, when he fails to consider what a role model of color might mean to a child of color).
@Beth,
If you are white, you have privilege. You may not want it, you may not have asked for it, but you have it. I have it, the white guy at the bus stop has it, you have it. It’s not your fault–it’s just the way the system works. If you’re as committed to a future less marred by oppression, please know that acknowledging your privilege is one of the most important things you can do. Again, I refer you to the link I posted above, as well as to the link Tami posted to the Peggy McIntosh article.
Finally, you do not live the same experience as your family members of color. We had a good conversation about this not too long ago on this site. *Can anyone help me find this link for Beth?*
Is this the one you’re looking for? http://loveisntenough.com/2009/12/30/how-to-be-an-anti-racist-ally/#comments
I don’t think it’s racist to notice how few black athletes there are in the Winter Olympics. Consequently I think it is valid to admire someone like Shani Davis for blazing his own trail.
P.S. I spent 2 1/2 years living in Mexico and never experienced rampant racism. I didn’t experience any. I tried to blend in and I do speak the language, so maybe that helped. I know some of my friends were turned off my tourists who came down and threw money around, but I was bugged by those people too.
Two last things, Julia, and then I must move away from this. First, I have never said that I did not have privelage that others do not, I did say though that this privelage does not limit my understanding of others. I am well aware of the disparity of privelage in this world. Too aware, in fact. Second, neither did I say that I live the same experience that my family does; I said SOME of the same experience, and this is true.
That said, we cannot know each others’ truth or experience and so I guess cannot discuss without judgement or complete openness. Kind of my point.
@ Beth,
I apologize if I misread and I appreciate the clarification.
I was reading your “we can’t only look backward” phrase as a rejection of Tami’s argument. But maybe that’s not what you meant.
My point was that I don’t think it my place (or any WP’s place) to suggest that feelings about the future are more important than feelings about the present. But maybe that is not what you were suggesting. I admit, with your last comment, I am now confused about what you ARE arguing. So excuse me if I have misinterpreted.
Well,as a Black American, I certainly gain greater inspiration from Jesse Owen’s story than I do from Kobe Bryant’s, given the time and place in which Jesse Owen’s story took place. That is not to say that I don’t appreciate Kobe Bryant’s talent, or his accomplishments. The fact that we’re Black, still here, and still achieving makes us pioneers in our own time.
As far as our friend Keith is concerned, we need to appreciate the accomplishments of all. To sat that disability supersedes race is playing the “which pain is greater” card, and that doesn’t get us anywhere. The other aspect of Keith statement which troubles me is that there is an assumption on his part that people of color, as a general rule, only identify with those who look like them. While this is certainly true in some cases, I think that most people of color have role models of races and ethnicities other than their own.